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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Spain
    Posts
    3

    Default French Safe - Marseille - Magaud Charf

    I have recently recovered this safe. Its origins are related with the regional administration of a province in Spain. We would like to restore it and exhibe it in our Museum. The first problem is that the original keys are lost. On the door is placed the inscription BREVETE - L SAUVE PERREYMOND - ET MAGAUD CHARF - MARSEILLE.
    But I have two questions to solve:

    1- Is it possible to date the safe? I suppose is about ca. 1800 but I don't really don't know nothing about the world of safes.

    2- Is it possible to get a picture of the three keys? The originals are lost and we would like to have a reference of "similar" ones, of a similar model, to start the patient labour of opening the safe.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Magaud_Charf_Safe_Box_3.jpg   Magaud_Charf_Safe_Box_2.jpg   Magaud_Charf_Safe_Box_1.jpg  

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Blenheim, New Zealand
    Posts
    56
    Country: New Zealand

    Default

    Hello Ritmo - just a quick message before heading work. Firstly, we are VERY envious of your find :-) Secondly, I think we have a picture of three Brevet keys somewhere. Thirdly - I am sure that we have a key similar to the left hand lock on your close up. I will have a dig around tonight when we get home and post more replys then. Kind regards Sarah

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Peteborough England
    Posts
    118
    Country: England

    Default Wow

    Wow, what a beauty! Did you find it in a ditch? Describe the safe in more detail please. Does the door open? Is it single skinned or double? I think the brass plate puts the date later in the century.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Ward\'s Padlock.jpg  

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Devon UK
    Posts
    3,117
    Country: UK

    Default

    Is that a brass plate then?
    Cheers
    Tom

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    West Midlands, UK
    Posts
    54

    Default

    That looks like cast iron to me, rather than brass.

    Interesting find.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Blenheim, New Zealand
    Posts
    56
    Country: New Zealand

    Default

    Ok - first off you should look at the 07NOV05 posting on this website by "mhipp". It's located in the Antique locks - buy/sell forum. Same type of safe as yours - except in fully restored/original condition. Might give you some idea of the insides and keys. Cheers Sarah

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Blenheim, New Zealand
    Posts
    56
    Country: New Zealand

    Default

    I've had a look at the key we have - and it is an exact design match for one of your locks. However - it looks like you need a hollow barrelled shaft - whereas ours is solid. I've taken some pics (albeit poor quality ones) so you can have a closer look. Our key is 110mm long if you're looking for a size comparison. Cheers Sarah
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Copy of DSCN2796.JPG   Copy of DSCN2798.JPG  

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Blenheim, New Zealand
    Posts
    56
    Country: New Zealand

    Default

    Phew - last but not least, I have scanned a selection of the pictures we have kept from past Ebay auctions (really just for our own reference). Apologies, unfortunately they are fairly grainey as they are scanned from poor quality prints. But you may get get some ideas from them? FYI - these keys do come up from time to time on Ebay - many refer to them as labyrinthe keys - mainly on Ebay France. Good luck with your endeavour and keep us posted as to your progress. Love to see some progress shots. Thanks for posting the original pics. Cheers for now Sarah
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Copy of scan0004.jpg   Copy of scan0005.jpg   Copy of scan0002.jpg   Copy of scan0001.jpg   Copy of scan.jpg  

    Yale Padlock.jpg  

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Spain
    Posts
    3

    Default

    First, thank you everybody, specially to Sarah.
    I have some details to add:
    - Dimensions are: 174 cm x 112 cm x 70 cm (height - width - depth) and about 300-400 kg.
    - Is made of wood, plated with cast iron and painted in green.
    - It seems that is fully made of cast iron, including details like the plate with the inscription. The yellow tone is only apparent and is due to the combination of oil and flash light.
    - The safe was forgotten and abandoned in a store with a huge quantity of objects without any value at all. Casually I found it in a casual visit. Incredible.
    - The door is double. I suppose that the lower part only opens after the upper one is opened. And the upper part is closed until we can make attemp with adecuate keys.
    - I promise to post in the future any significative progression.

    Later I will try to add more pictures of details, specially, I will try to show the mechanism that opens the small doors of the locks (oil was employed for opening the system that is hiding the locks. The system was blocked because of time, but with special oil runs again).
    And finally, sorry for my poor English. Manuel.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    West Midlands, UK
    Posts
    54

    Default

    From the looks of the sets shown by Sarah, once you have decoded one lock, the others should be the same, but at a different scale. This will make things easier.

    I'd guess (and this is a guess) that you could perhaps look inside the keyhole and learn quite a lot about this system of locks. There are going to be two possible ways it locks:

    either the key front presses against something and engages it, or

    the key passes completely through a set of wards, and it then turned to engage a single lever arrangement.

    As such, you can either impression it with a specially made key blank or try using something long and thin to hit whatever button are there, or you can use some carefully shaped wires to try and access the internals and throw the bolt.

    It is a tricky looking thing, though, and you might well need a good non-destructive locksmith. I know a few guys in Spain, but it's a big country! The advantage of a from-the-UK locksmith is he is far more likely to be able to open a lever lock system like this without damage, since we have lots of lever locks, unlike the rest of the world.

    I'd sure like a play with it!

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