Welcome to our world exploring the Historical, Political and Technological aspects of Locks, Keys and Safes

Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 45
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    1,485
    Country: United States

    Default Earlier Manifoil than Mark IV? And other questions.

    From time to time I see references (and eBay auctions) for the Manifoil Mark IV combination lock, commonly used on UK government containers. Were there ever any Manifoils that were not Mark IV?

    Is there any sort of history for it, such as when it was introduced, and how secure it claims to be (as opposed to how secure it really is)? I gather it is/was used on filing cabinets and the like but not necessarily on serious safes.

    Also, it appears that it is no longer made. See for example Locksmith Hoddesdon - Locksmith Blog which shows a modern replacement. The dial looks very much like a Sargent and Greenleaf, but the lock body is not something I've seen before. Any information on this replacement, such as who makes it?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Devon UK
    Posts
    3,117
    Country: UK

    Default

    Mark 4 were the most widely used but Mk 3 are still out there, often from the 60's although I don't know when they were first used. Brand New Mk4's are available for the discerning user with something to swap.
    They were designed to be very resistant to sarrupticious entry-and were! Many of the cabinets were easily drilled but there were also very good safes that used the manifoil in which case they were a real challenge.
    Anti Xray and manipulation (both feeling and listening), they did the job.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Leeds England
    Posts
    153
    Country: England

    Default New manifoil locks

    There is, quite rightly, a new manifoil lock on the market. This is available to buy & is a direct replacement.

    I have the model no stashed on my works pc & will dig it out.

    Its difference, I'm told is that it can be drilled reletively easily & it does not have the mk4 anti drill arrangement.

    They are approx 30% cheaper.

    As far as i know, the MOD has not bought any yet!

    Russ
    Withy Grove

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    1,485
    Country: United States

    Default

    Does anybody have a template for mounting a Manifoil? I realize that in normal application a plate was welded in place that was pre-drilled and also had 4 mounting studs, thus a template was of no importance. So the Manifoil was apparently not a field-installed item like the S&G "magic module" standard. My interest is in drilling a plate to mount one for display; although I have taken some careful measurements I'd like to compare with any other templates that might be out there.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Devon UK
    Posts
    3,117
    Country: UK

    Default

    It might be nicer to prettify up a locking bar (or top part of) for filing cabinets (which has the manifoil attached already). This will then also have the secondry protection demo'd against bolt end pressure.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Cleveland, Ohio USA
    Posts
    1,433
    Country: United States

    Default

    One way of drilling to mount a difficult to measure combination lock would be to first drill the spindle hole so the spindle fits snuggly. Install the dial, dial ring and lock onto the board and run the drive cam all the way down till it is tight. Now the lock mounting holes can be drilled or at least marked. A drill that closely fits the holes can be used to center your drill points. Also the dial ring can be traced. After the holes are all drilled, enlarge the spindle a little and it should work fine. Doug

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    1,485
    Country: United States

    Default

    Thanks for the suggestion, Doug. I normally mount safe/vault locks on 1/4-inch aluminum plates and drill/tap appropriately on a milling machine. Having an "official" template/drawing makes this much easier. With the Manifoil I also have the round shim to make measurements from. An unusual feature (compared to S&G/Mosler/Diebold) is that the spindle bushing protrudes from the case, and that there is also a round "button" which must be there to ensure orientation (though the uneven mounting holes should assure that) and possibly block forceful rotation of the case.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Peteborough England
    Posts
    118
    Country: England

    Default

    I have a blueprint for this lock - very dark with all components shown but no dimensions. Sample attached. Do you want me to try to photograph it for you?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Manifoil2.jpg  

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    1,485
    Country: United States

    Default

    Huntlocks, if you have the time, it would be interesting to have a photograph of the blueprints. Thanks for offering!

    ---------- Post added at 09:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:05 AM ----------

    Another question, does anybody have any sales literature for the Manifoil? While it would not have dimensions it might have specifications and lists of features that could explain what's what on the inside.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    1,485
    Country: United States

    Default

    A short history of Milners' and Chubb appeared in The Lock Collector (published in the UK by Tony Beck), issue 14 (Jan/Mar 2007). There it is stated that Milners' invented the Manifoil in 1951 and merged with Chatwood in 1956. In 1959 Chatwood-Milner was purchased by Chubb but operated separately under their own name until 1970. A little more information is in issue 16.

    Some Manifoils are marked CM (Chatwood-Milner) and some are marked Chubb. Perhaps very early ones are marked differently.

    However, I have a Manifoil that is marked CM Ltd. 1976. Is there an explanation for this discrepancy?

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •