Yale Treasury Key

[Doug MacQueen]

Max, I wouldn't go that far, but it was finding differing statements in books that started me looking at the patent info which I had easy access to. Right up there with the continuing but incorrect statement that, "Yale never made safes". Doug

[Doug MacQueen]

4X you really have my attention now. Can you reveal the source of the info on the 3 methods of picking/ And do you have an idea of what they may be? It's clear that by the early 40's, the tentative method was well understood, at least by a few. And it is no stretch that it's reliance on variance was applied to the later combination locks by Sargent with his micrometer, since the machining variances exist there as well. It is also clear that when someone like Yale Jr. makes the statement that something is easy to pick, as he does in one of his Treasury patents, you have to consider who is making the statement. Not your average locksmith and certainly not your average burglar. Doug

[Doug MacQueen]

From Yale Jr.'s 1856 dissertation

[Huw Eastwood]

Max, I wouldn't go that far, but it was finding differing statements in books that started me looking at the patent info which I had easy access to. Right up there with the continuing but incorrect statement that, "Yale never made safes". Doug

That's interesting Doug- one things for sure in that the patent records can't be wrong, so I bet it's unbelievable some of the myths, beliefs and inaccuracies you have uncovered. As for Yale making safes- I just learned something else today! I had no idea at all- Although if they are presumably rare then unlikely any would have filtered their way over this side of the pond, but I still had no idea that he had.

You are a mine of knowledge and information Sir!

[BBE]

As for Yale making safes- I just learned something else today! I had no idea at all- Although if they are presumably rare then unlikely any would have filtered their way over this side of the pond, but I still had no idea that he had.

I had a friend who was the Yale Key Records Manager a few years before I took that job and he said that he learned to never say that Yale didn't make anything because as soon as he said 'Yale never made those' someone would send him one to identify model number, etc.

It is my understanding from him, as he was there when they moved from Rye, NY to Monroe, NC, that there was a very large room lined with drawer cabinets and in the drawers were hundreds if not thousands of samples of prototypes and production models that were just left there and went to scrap when the building was torn down. Yale has certainly lost more of their history than they have available today.
BBE.

[Adrian Weber]

Thanks for posting that Max, I have also found it and was about to Scan it on Monday
I am not sure on the copyright... it is quite old though. I was probably not born yet when you read the book in the 80s

[Adrian Weber]

The lock can be found on page 141.

[Huw Eastwood]

Anytime Dicey- glad to be of service

I've had another look at the book but can't find any references to copyright or credits for the pictures- it has an index at the back listing all the pictures throughout the book, but no mention of any credits.

The Yale Treasury lock is from the Lips collection/Museum, so can only assume the pictures are the same.

You're making me feel old saying that I probably first read it in my early teens- the book was actually bought at IFSEC 1974, and still has the original receipt taped inside the back cover!

[Adrian Weber]

Hey Max,

Lips belongs to Chubb now if I am not mistaken or was it Assa Abloy? Anyway... the Copyright should belong to the owner of Lips or to no one if the archive and the writer of the book is both gone and no one of the family claims it. Copyright is a difficult thing and I am better safe than sorry.

I have attached some pictures of the Dutch and the English book. Brian Morland was so kind to help me on acquiring these books so a big thanks goes to him! He helped me to determine whether they are the real deal or not. The English version should have the green colour in the pictures of the first pages. If the green colour is not there it is a later reprint if I remember correctly. The Dutch version has a dedication sticker to whoever received the book. Oh and the Dutch version originally came with two newspaper articles in it!

Hope that helps

[Huw Eastwood]

Thanks Dicey

Yes the copy I have for reference has the green- strangely the title page within the book is white, and the blank reverse side of it green- Looks like an original copy not a re-print then

I don't think I'll be posting pictures unless they're mine I've taken myself from now on- I understand what you're saying about copyright and I'd rather play it safe as well.

PS- Yes I seem to remember Lips were swallowed up by Chubb a long while back- since then I think it's easier to list who hasn't owned them, rather than who has!

Thanks again