Yale Treasury Key

[Adrian Weber]

I have that book both in Dutch and in Engl. I haven't had time to read it yet.

[Doug MacQueen]

As is too often I didn't read (understand) the previous posts before speaking. I have done a little research and found that Jr. did in fact patent a redundancy key lock in 1858, so that should give some credence to the double Treasury version being a redundant lock setup. I have a little more I'll post later. Doug

[Doug MacQueen]

The 1861 patent I originally checked out is #32,331 which did describe protection against picking. There is an earlier 1860 patent 28,710 for the lock. Both of these patents are the single Treasury. No patent found for a double Treasury model. As I understand it, the bit is removed from the key during unlocking. This would pretty much preclude the lock from being an auto reset. From what I have seen auto reset models require the key to be removed in the unlocked position, to allow a different key to lock it. Anyway I would be more than happy to repair the malfunctioning lock found over there in the UK. More than happy! Doug

[Doug MacQueen]

And now that I have actually read the second but earlier patent, it appears I was wrong. The key is removable in the unlocked position and will auto reset to a new key. Doug

[Huw Eastwood]

Success at last- the book is 'Locks & Keys throughout the Ages' by Vincent J. M. Eras

Here's a scan of the small section on the Yale Double Treasury lock- the patent for this one is written as 1852, and Yale Jr's patent for his double lock as 1857- I'm unsure if Jr worked on a similar lock to the Treasury though- I think the later lock is the 'Quadruplex', which is an entirely different design and style of key. I'm assuming it's okay to scan and post this here(?)

Got fond memories reading this book in the 1980's and drooling over a 40 ton Lips circular door pictured at the back of the book- I've never been the same since.....

[4xlock]

Hi Doug,

The lock in question is in the Mossman collection in New york. A superb collection of one of a kind locks. I suspect you have already seen this collection. I flew over there to see it, a christmas gift from my wife. I am doing some research into the great lock controversies of 1830's to 1880's in the US. I have been trying to identify some of the x-patents and think the odd one or two locks, in that collection, may well be examples of them.

[Doug MacQueen]

Yes, I have been there and have the collection disc as well. There are quite a few unidentified locks in the collection but most would be post X patents. But if I can be of any help don't hesitate to ask. Regarding the Era book, he has Jr. as the designer of the Quadruplex lock, where it was Sr's lock. The single was 1844 patent No. 3,630 and the double was 1849 patent No. 6,111. I am quite sure on the Jr's Treasury patents I listed and his earlier 1851 and 1852 were different locks, but did contribute to his Treasury as well as his earlier Magic Infallible, which is also shown in J. Erroll's book. As to the picking of the Treasury, I am very curious on that subject. Have you found anything yet? Doug

[4xlock]

22048 is the patent number (Nov 9 1858) for the either or opening method covering whatever locks are fitted.

"These sets of tumblers may be of similar construction requiring the application of one common key or of entirely different kinds requiring a different key or adjustment, the object being to provide a way to get into a safe at any time without violence, even though one part of the lock may be deranged by accident or otherwise."

[4xlock]

Hi Doug,

The chief forman engineer from Yale moved over to work for James Sargent. He had worked out the opening methods of all of Yale's locks. As he stated, in one article, the Treasury could be defeated by 3 different ways. Of these I believe he blocked 2 systems but he could not block the third. As you alluded to in the last patent, Yale had additional protection not in place in the earlier patents. There was, however, a process that would overcome this. My humble opinion is that Yale worked this method out before his foreman and developed an opening system that would defeat any key lock, including all his own. From 1857 he used this method on the Parautoptic lock. His original method was a refined version of that used by Wm. Hall of Boston, the smoke process, from Oct 1854 if my memory serves me correctly.

My research indicates that Robert Newell may also have had this knowledge as far back as 1841 but never really pushed this process or allowed it to get into anyone else's hands, including Hobbs's, in the later years. If, as I suspect, Newell had this knowledge he would realise that all his locks would become vulnerable as well as his competitors.

Conspiracy theory comes to mind. Newell dies August 1854. October 1854 Yale starts opening Parautoptic locks and others. Yale dies 25th December 1868 James Sargent starts picking Yale's locks the following year. Being cynical, the last thing you would do is to demonstrate picking one of your competitors locks only for your competitor to reciprocate by picking one of yours, by the same method.

I think Sargent's locks had their vulnerabilities, known to Yale, so there was a stalemate. James Sargent worked for Yale as a salesman at the time that Yale developed his new techniques, so no doubt would have been privileged to them.

If you look at the picture of Yale's tools on your CD of the Mossman Collection, there also appears to be an impressioned bit for Yale's Magic Key Lock made out of lead. i.e. Yale was picking his Magic key locks at the same time as the Parautoptics!

[Huw Eastwood]

Great info- you got me doubting everything else in the Vincent Eras book now Doug!
I'd noticed a couple of minor mistakes elsewhere in the book, but to find out the Yale Treasury and Quadruplex information is that incorrect and mixed up!