Sargent lock

[oldbiscuit]

Here's a Sargent lock I picked up a while back on Ebay. I had read an article in the Journal of Lock Collecting where the author had a similar lock with the same markings that had square pins inside rather than round. I bought this lock locked without a key not knowing the pin type,but hoping for the rare square pins. But as my luck would have it ,they were the traditional round pins. I was able to pick the lock open and remove the internal assembly screw, dissassemble the lock, clean it,find a key blank,cut it to match the pins and reassemble it to make a working lock. I have asked the author for any information on the age of the lock as well as asking various other collectors with no results. I've seen this same lock with the name Sargent in raised letters across the center rather than the fancy S & CO scroll on mine. The reverse sides are the same on the scroll desing and the raised name design. Anyone out there have any info or know where to point me to look? Thanks, Mark

[Pschiffe]

Your Keil 108 aftermarket key blank crosses to Sargent 265B original. This is an obscure and perhaps restricted keyway. I'm guessing your padlock may have been for a railroad application. I'll check with the Sargent Key Records Department and see if I can get any information.

Pete Schifferli

[oldbiscuit]

Thanks Pete, I got the key blank in an assortment of key blanks I bought off of Ebay a couple of months back. It was a perfect fit. I was hopping to find an origional period correct Sargent key blank, but wasn't having any luck. Still would like to know when the lock was made. I've searched through Sargent patents and found the lock style but nothing on the logo. Mark

[Dean Nickel]

I may have an OEM blank from that time. I will check and get back to you.

As for the date I would guess around 1900-1920s on the account of the keyway.

Keyways are a good way to get a date range for narrowing a search.

Can you post a picture of the keyway of the lock?

[oldbiscuit]

Dean, here's a picture of the keyway, hope it helps. Thanks for any info you can find. Mark

[Doug MacQueen]

Dragged kicking and screaming into a discussion about a square pinned padlock. Who would have thunck it. No offense meant. OK, so it sounds like a stepped wafer lock as far the master/ change key way is concerned, which in turn enlarges the picking area. Which in turn generally increases picking odds. Its been a long time but is that Sargent "U" keyway? Not the most difficult keyway in regards to picking, so if thats the keyway that was used, I'd say the square pin idea was on the whole, a waste of time and most likely a selling point. Now that is just the opinion of a former locksmith, but obviously it is a great find as a collectable and an interesting bit of pin tumbler history. As to John's article, the patent (s) are always available. Doug

[oldbiscuit]

Doug, you're right, it would pretty darn easy to pick a square pin cylinder,especially if it had the wider keyway. However I would think that back in those days,outside of locksmiths, there probably weren't a lot of folks with the tools or knowledge to pick a lock so it was for all practical purposes a novel idea. The other thing that I wonder is if the square pin patent was issued in 1897, wouldn't they have tried to put it into production soon after? And being that it probably wasn't very successful right off the bat,they probably didn't produce them for very many years. Now that being said, in John Grists article, the locks were of the fancy scroll design. So that leads me to wonder how many years Sargent used that scroll design. So far I haven't been able to find any patents for the logo design, but maybe I'm just not looking in the right places. Any help out there would be appreciated. Thanks, Mark

[Pschiffe]

Your Keil 108 aftermarket key blank crosses to Sargent 265B original. This is an obscure and perhaps restricted keyway. I'm guessing your padlock may have been for a railroad application. I'll check with the Sargent Key Records Department and see if I can get any information.

Pete Schifferli

I heard from Ron Shanley of Sargent Key Records Dept. today. He believes your padlock was made in the 1920 - pre WW2 era. No further infomation available.

Pete Schifferli

[oldbiscuit]

Thanks Pete for the information. Do you have any idea on how to do a copyright search on the scroll logo? Mark

[Pschiffe]

Thanks Pete for the information. Do you have any idea on how to do a copyright search on the scroll logo? Mark

No, sorry Mark; no idea. The company was incorporated in 1864 as Sargent & Co. ... They set about making locks with standardized parts and simplified the inside workings of their new line of locks. The locks were stamped "S&Co".*

*from Locks and Lockmakers of America, Revised Third Edition by Thomas F. Hennessy

Pete