Sargent lock

[Dean Nickel]

From the info I have gained from a few older locksmiths they said it came out around 1930s and lasted a about 10 years and then slowly slipped into the backwaters of time. I know of one person that has a pin kit but he is unwilling for me to go and get data from it so I kinda question the fact of the contents of the kit. It is marked that it is a square pin kit from the one time I noticed it in his shop. I have a cylinder in my collection... I will have to find it and do a picture shoot of it.

Still looking for the blank..... so many boxes of blanks. I need to get rid of a few.

If Billy doesn't post in on this I will have to write him and ask.

[oldbiscuit]

Thanks Dean, I'm still thinking it's from the twenties maybe early thirties but I could be all wrong. Hopefully Billy will check in and give his input on it also. It would be interesting to see what your key dating comes up with. Mark

[wylk]

I tried a trademark search at the US Patent and Trademark web site for an owner of "Sargent and Company" but did not find this. The earliest result returned was dated 1897. It's possible they did not register this as a trademark.

Jim

[Dean Nickel]

Here you go... it is a bit older than I thought or was told it would be.

As to the attack issue. This isn't about resistance against attack more than gaining keying potential in master keying. About the same time they came out with there own master ring cylinder to gain a better capability to master keying. This was before the math for that subject was truly understood.

[BBE]

I've been away for a while and that's when the interesting stuff usually pops up. That falls into place with my own estimation that the square pin mortise cylinders were produced from 1900 to around 1915. I was not aware of or have ever seen a padlock with the square pins.

I knew a locksmith in Louisville, KY who had a keying kit and used it to rekey local Catholic Churches. He indicated to me that he had never seen a rim cylinder and never encountered them on any other business. The mortise cylinder I have came from a church in MI.

Interestingly the top of the bottom pin was curved to match the plug diameter as shown in the patent drawing and that was likely done for pick resistance. It would be fairly effective. There were a few door hardware locks made in the early 1900's that had the complimentary keyways and tumblers with two operating surfaces, a couple of examples that come immediately to mind are Norwalk and Chicago Hardware.
BBE.

[oldbiscuit]

Glad to see you on here Bill. In your opinion, did Sargent make the scroll design before, during or after the same lock with the Sargent name in raised lettering? I'm just wondering what the time frame is on my lock. I know that they used both designs with the square pins, at least that's what the article by John Grist suggested. Thanks, Mark

[Jack Sullivan]

Here's a Sargent lock I picked up a while back on Ebay. I had read an article in the Journal of Lock Collecting where the author had a similar lock with the same markings that had square pins inside rather than round. I bought this lock locked without a key not knowing the pin type,but hoping for the rare square pins. But as my luck would have it ,they were the traditional round pins. I was able to pick the lock open and remove the internal assembly screw, dissassemble the lock, clean it,find a key blank,cut it to match the pins and reassemble it to make a working lock. I have asked the author for any information on the age of the lock as well as asking various other collectors with no results. I've seen this same lock with the name Sargent in raised letters across the center rather than the fancy S & CO scroll on mine. The reverse sides are the same on the scroll desing and the raised name design. Anyone out there have any info or know where to point me to look? Thanks, Mark

This lock appears to bear a strong resemblance to a lock I won on eBay the other day. The ornate design on the reverse is the same (and is shown in the patent figure attached) but the obsverse only has SARGENT in the center of a similar design. These locks appear to be works variants of the same design patented in 1903 (US729792) & likely marketed about the same time. (I have another pair of Sargent locks that also appear to be works variants of the same patented design which I plan to post later).

Jack

[Jack Sullivan]

This lock appears to bear a strong resemblance to a lock I won on eBay the other day. The ornate design on the reverse is the same (and is shown in the patent figure attached) but the obsverse only has SARGENT in the center of a similar design. These locks appear to be works variants of the same design patented in 1903 (US729792) & likely marketed about the same time. (I have another pair of Sargent locks that also appear to be works variants of the same patented design which I plan to post later).

Jack

Yes, I'm aware of that. But the post your responding to is not mine but someone else's.

Jack

[Donnie]

Here's a Sargent lock I picked up a while back on Ebay. I had read an article in the Journal of Lock Collecting where the author had a similar lock with the same markings that had square pins inside rather than round. I bought this lock locked without a key not knowing the pin type,but hoping for the rare square pins. But as my luck would have it ,they were the traditional round pins. I was able to pick the lock open and remove the internal assembly screw, dissassemble the lock, clean it,find a key blank,cut it to match the pins and reassemble it to make a working lock. I have asked the author for any information on the age of the lock as well as asking various other collectors with no results. I've seen this same lock with the name Sargent in raised letters across the center rather than the fancy S & CO scroll on mine. The reverse sides are the same on the scroll desing and the raised name design. Anyone out there have any info or know where to point me to look? Thanks, Mark

After a study of the logo, it looks to me like the S is on top, then the C , & then the O is on the bottom. I am unsure of where the & is? It could be S C & O or S & C O ..
My guess, for what it's worth would be S C & O.....
HA, I just checked Arnells book &it shows S & C O...Sargent & co..maybe no help Donnie

[PeterZ]

Keyway looks like B (Ilco 1008 or 1008A) or K (1010 or 1010A (6 pin)).
-Pete