HHM? Round Door at Trinity Place

**Doug MacQueen** · 12-03-11, 02:57 PM

Now here is a case where new met old and old lost. At least Mosler could have adapted a couple old style dials when they installed the new locks. Not positive on the maker but did find HHM on a dial somewhere in the vault. There are 2 round doors at this former bank. Doug

**wylk** · 12-03-11, 05:00 PM

The Trinity Place web site (go to their main page at TrinityPlaceNYC.com then click on History/About Us) claims this is a Mosler door, or at least a Mosler vault:

The vault in which the bar and restaurant is located was built by mosler in upstate New York and floated down the Hudson River via barge at which point was transferred to its current position on railroad tracks. “Legend has it that it still rests on the railroad tracks.”

The vault is very unique in the fact it has two identical doors weighing 35 tonne each, one door leading into the bar and the other into the restaurant.

**Doug MacQueen** · 13-03-11, 03:50 PM

It may well have been built by Mosler. But was that determination based solely on the fact that the only name found on the door was on the modern Mosler locks? Or the fact that since Mosler installed those later locks it must be a Mosler door? At the time it was built the Mosler and HHM factories were located in Hamilton, Ohio so I don't know where the upstate NY idea comes from. unless a final re-assembly was done there. After studying the door a little more I am fairly convinced of one thing though, that it is another Hollar designed door. Doug

**wylk** · 14-03-11, 05:25 AM

Doug suggested Hollar doors. Bingo!

It took me just about all day but I finally found an article in The Banker's Magazine, volume 80, March 1910, page 492 that discusses unique safe deposit vaults of the era. The first vault discussed is the Carnegie vault. The article states that the company organizer, Charles C. Dickinson, "... enlisted the services of William H. Hollar, of the Hollar Company, as designer and engineer of the vaults." The article includes some nice photographs, including one on page 494 that was printed upside-down.

The Banker's magazine - Google Books

The Carnegie Safe Deposit Company was closely tied to the Carnegie Trust Company which failed in September of 1911 after about 4 years in business. They had no affiliation with Andrew Carnegie and used his name without permission, and failed due to some questionable transactions as well as the poor luck of being mentioned alongside some shady characters.

**Doug MacQueen** · 16-03-11, 10:51 AM

Thanks for spending the time to track that down. It continues to amaze me how much is now available online. Other than the more obvious clues of the boltwork design and finials (hinge caps), the odd positioning of the timelock mounting holes above the Yale automatic bolt motor do not match any of the large standard Yale models that would have been normally used with the automatic. Having seen other Hollar "electrically wound" timelock setups combined with the centally located hole between the mounting got me to thinking. I just happened to look in Mark Franks collection and saw a Yale/Hollar timelock case that just might be the one that would fit. Doug

**wylk** · 19-03-11, 09:46 PM

We know that the Mosler locks on the Hollar door are not original. Whose locks did Hollar use?

**wylk** · 21-03-11, 04:44 AM

Here's a neat comparison. In the 1910 article on the Carnegie vaults there is a picture on page 492; in the picture gallery for Trinity Place there are pictures of the same door from nearly the same angle, 100 years later. Click on the pictures for larger versions.