Old safe keys (I think)

[krikretep]

Hi, I have a collection of old locks and keys that I collected over many years and 4 keys in particular interest me because they seem to be selling for high amounts on e-bay. I enclose pictures and hope that someone can confirm same, Thanks.

[Dean Nickel]

What I think you have there are Master piece keys. Keys like that could be used for doors, chests, or Master Piece locks that apprentices make to become Master Locksmiths. Now 2 of those keys appear to be warded really nicely. One is a lever lock that it fits as well as some nice warding. There WILL be some others that will comment on these lovely keys. NICE!

[safeman]

Wonderful craftmanship. I am unfamiliar with the term Master piece keys though.
All my working life I came across many such keys, mostly operating on cast or wrought iron chests and doors made in the early 1800s. Easily broken because of the complexity and basic weakness of such keys when faced with heavy resistance due to back pressure on the bolt, most safe and lock men had no option but to replace such locks as the knowledge of how they were originally cut had been lost with the passage of time. Replacement was usually with a standard safe lock and bolt throwing dog and handle.

Box of Wards or Wheel Lock keys when cut today inevitably have a width of cut far in excess of the original key thereby weakening it even further.

I have a question for all the old seasoned lockies out there. How do you think such keys were originally cut. I've heard that they were cast. I've heard that it was a combination of saws and very fine chisels. Or could it have been that the keys were bench cut to very fine tolerances and then the wards and wheels assembled around the key?

One thing is clear, the end cuts, parallel to the stem, are slightly radiused, which points to a curved saw blade similar to a tank cutter. But what about the others?

[Dean Nickel]

If the books that I have looked at (Can't read french yet) these keys were made in several parts then hand filed or turned depending on the part. Then they would fuse the parts togeather and then file the parts at those points. Saws were also used if the pictures are correct. The step by step isn't that clear in the pictures. From my years in a machine shop and what was passed down from my grandfather what I have described above is close. We would use gas brazing here and now to do the fusing.... it would be getting the right temp on iron would be the trick. This is where learning blacksmithing would come into play. They use almost the same things in that craft as they did in locksmithing back then. In fact there is a blacksmith site that covers some methods of lock and key making.

An apprentice would make a Master Piece to prove that they are a Master Locksmith. This lock could take a long time to make and would have unreal wards and detail that normaly wouldn't be in a lock. They are works of art.

[krikretep]

Thanks very much for your help guys. Just to let you know that with keys number 2 and 3 the top is slightly offline with the bottom. The shanks are not bent so I think this was in the making of the keys. The reason I thought that they are safe keys as similar keys with complicated cuts and dust caps are coming up for sale on a regular basis on e-bay and even small sizes are selling for between £300 and £400. If anyone would like more details please just ask.

[Tom Gordon]

These are nice old keys which were cast, turned on a rustic type of lathe and then hand chizelled and sawn.
If you look at the end of the round shaft -not at the pipe end but in the centre of the bow (head), you will see a small mark which is where the lathe held the key at that end.
These were typically used on good locks, whether a safe or posh building.
It is very difficult to see how the cuts that curve through the thickness of the key were done but the received wisdom has always been that they were chizelled with curved chizels-I am never going to try and do it myself, I know it will just never work for me.

[EuropeLocks]

I have several of these keys in my collection which I've attached. I have not been able to identify what type of lock they might have been from until today. The first two you have look like the type that might fit this drawback lock in the second picture. It was made somewhere between 1790-1810. Now the keys you have might be later.

One another note I question if these were actually hand cut wards. Some were a combination of warded and lever but as accurate as they are and the volume they were made I have to believe they were done by machine. The keys that are just warded like the one in the second picture, maybe. I have seen them a lot of different places. Just a thought.

[Dean Nickel]

While I can't be 100% sure I think that of those 4 keys two of them 1 and 3 are the same change key and the 4th one is a master key. This would imply that those three keys were part of a lock system for more than one lock.

[BBE]

What I think you have there are Master piece keys. Keys like that could be used for doors, chests, or Master Piece locks that apprentices make to become Master Locksmiths. Now 2 of those keys appear to be warded really nicely. One is a lever lock that it fits as well as some nice warding. There WILL be some others that will comment on these lovely keys. NICE!

I have seen quite a few masterpiece keys and all of them have much more elaborate bows that what is on those keys.
BBE.

[Dean Nickel]

Thank you Billy. I always learn more with you around. I wouldn't consider that point now days but the world has changed a good deal... and not for the better were things are made.