Old safe keys (I think)

[krikretep]

Hi, I have a collection of old locks and keys that I collected over many years and 4 keys in particular interest me because they seem to be selling for high amounts on e-bay. I enclose pictures and hope that someone can confirm same, Thanks.

[Dean Nickel]

What I think you have there are Master piece keys. Keys like that could be used for doors, chests, or Master Piece locks that apprentices make to become Master Locksmiths. Now 2 of those keys appear to be warded really nicely. One is a lever lock that it fits as well as some nice warding. There WILL be some others that will comment on these lovely keys. NICE!

[safeman]

Wonderful craftmanship. I am unfamiliar with the term Master piece keys though.
All my working life I came across many such keys, mostly operating on cast or wrought iron chests and doors made in the early 1800s. Easily broken because of the complexity and basic weakness of such keys when faced with heavy resistance due to back pressure on the bolt, most safe and lock men had no option but to replace such locks as the knowledge of how they were originally cut had been lost with the passage of time. Replacement was usually with a standard safe lock and bolt throwing dog and handle.

Box of Wards or Wheel Lock keys when cut today inevitably have a width of cut far in excess of the original key thereby weakening it even further.

I have a question for all the old seasoned lockies out there. How do you think such keys were originally cut. I've heard that they were cast. I've heard that it was a combination of saws and very fine chisels. Or could it have been that the keys were bench cut to very fine tolerances and then the wards and wheels assembled around the key?

One thing is clear, the end cuts, parallel to the stem, are slightly radiused, which points to a curved saw blade similar to a tank cutter. But what about the others?

[Dean Nickel]

If the books that I have looked at (Can't read french yet) these keys were made in several parts then hand filed or turned depending on the part. Then they would fuse the parts togeather and then file the parts at those points. Saws were also used if the pictures are correct. The step by step isn't that clear in the pictures. From my years in a machine shop and what was passed down from my grandfather what I have described above is close. We would use gas brazing here and now to do the fusing.... it would be getting the right temp on iron would be the trick. This is where learning blacksmithing would come into play. They use almost the same things in that craft as they did in locksmithing back then. In fact there is a blacksmith site that covers some methods of lock and key making.

An apprentice would make a Master Piece to prove that they are a Master Locksmith. This lock could take a long time to make and would have unreal wards and detail that normaly wouldn't be in a lock. They are works of art.

[Doug MacQueen]

The similarities between the basic designs of the two locks posted so far are too great to be co-incidental, even if the the key warding styles range from fairly simple to somewhat complex. I am getting a real education here on a period that appears to be the end of the warded lock designs, at least as concerning the British locks. I feel that both locks were as much machine made as hand made. And the cases are very similar to many of the lock cases of made here in the US in the early to mid 1800's. It also looks like the warding on the more complex keys, was in fact, not hand done. Very interesting though and now I am wondering how they would have machined them. Thanks for posting the pictures. Doug .

[Tom Gordon]

Bramah made some of the first machine tools but even Chubb were making their locks basically by hand in the early 1800's. I am confident that the locks and keys were substantially handmade, but as these fine locks and keys were basically off country houses or quality commercial premisess they spent a lot of time to make the locks and keys look immaculate. There were substantial manufacturing premises, but often work was done in a shed in the locksmiths backyard, working as outworkers. I suspect that the better locks would have been made in a larger factory though. Times and locks changed very slowly then and a pattern would be reproduced for generations. Limited key differs were extended by careful variations of many, many aspects of the key, where warding had distinct limitations especially when masterkeyed. Keys were made to the lock because interchangeability of parts came much later.
Indeed even now Chubb cannot make their high security lever locks to particular heights. They cut the keys and then cut the levers to the individual keys.

[BBE]

What I think you have there are Master piece keys. Keys like that could be used for doors, chests, or Master Piece locks that apprentices make to become Master Locksmiths. Now 2 of those keys appear to be warded really nicely. One is a lever lock that it fits as well as some nice warding. There WILL be some others that will comment on these lovely keys. NICE!

I have seen quite a few masterpiece keys and all of them have much more elaborate bows that what is on those keys.
BBE.

[Dean Nickel]

Thank you Billy. I always learn more with you around. I wouldn't consider that point now days but the world has changed a good deal... and not for the better were things are made.

[krikretep]

Thanks very much for the above information. The lock in the second picture looks really nice and I wonder why such a complicated key would be needed for what looks like an internal door lock. A picture of the front of the lock would be nice to see. I have a collection of early Georgian and Victorian Dublin door locks and keys and the keys are normally not too elaborate.

[krikretep]

I enclose a few photos of one of my larger Irish Locks. I am sure it is hand made and it is off a back door of a large country house.