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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
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    Country: England

    Default Why do US safes have wheels but UK/European ones do not?

    I wonder why all the safes we see here that come from the US have wheels on. Here in the UK none of them do - well apart from modern Japanese/Chinese safes made to a US specification.

    Any ideas?

    The point weight on those Cannonball safes must be immense. If the weight was spread it would be much easier on the floor loading. Imagine one of those tipping into a hole in the floor - e~r~r~r I just went faint.icon11

  2. #2
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    Jan 2010
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    Clarkston, Washington USA
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    Default Wheels on American made antique safes

    The reason most antique safes, have wheels on them is simple to be able to move them around. Most of the safe manufacturer made the wheels on the safes so that they could be removed. The wheels were suppose to have been removed when the safe was positioned where the customer wanted it set. The wheels however most of the time were left on the safe. There are various reasons why the wheels were left on the safe; the customer didn't want them removed so the safe could be easily moved in the future, they didn't have a way to raise the safe to remove the wheels, and the one I consider the most is that the customer and people setting the safe did not know the wheels could be removed. There could be any number of reasons why the wheels were never removed. There are some burglary safes,like cannon ball safes, that have wheels that can not be taken off. Again the wheels are so they can easily be moved. Some of the cannon ball safes can weight as much and 6 to 7 tons.

  3. #3
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    Default

    I guessed it was a traditional thing. I'd imagine it was one manufacturers innovation way back and other manufacturers didn't want to be left out.

    In the UK we have trouble with architects and floor loading - even on good modern concrete framed structures. Even crummy modern safes tip the limits so those wheels would be a complete no-no in our offices.

    I can understand why they weren't removed. Who wants to be the one underneath to undo the bolts.

    The fact is though none of the UK manufacturers make wheeled safes - and we manage to move them. You just need the right kit. You would need the right kit for a safe with those wretched fixed wheel too - not an easy task. Still need to lay down timber because they won't roll over carpet tiles. Who fancies moving any over a timber floor - fooo I just went faint again.

  4. #4
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    Default

    As my understanding of physics is a bit greater than that of chemistry, I feel it safe to say the floor loading problem, as discussed, has two parts. Whenever there is point contact (where the 4 wheels are touching the floor surface) the surface, especially if on wood floors, may need reinforcing such as a steel plate or such. But this not same as the overall area loading on the floor where it it really doesn't matter if the safe is on wheels or not. I don't agree that the wheels on safes were intended to be removed, even tho they can often be and in very few cases have been.

  5. #5
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    Sep 2004
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    Devon UK
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    Country: UK

    Default

    I think that we could be forgetting that the sole way of transporting the safes would be by horse drawn cart in the early days-safe wheels would make little difference to the burglar whose problem was to get into them and not to remove the safe.

  6. #6
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    Sep 2007
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    Country: Great Britain

    Default U.S. Safes.

    I have always understood the reason for wheels being fitted to American safes was to facilitate them being wheeled into the secure company vault at the end of business.

    Where security against theft was required, such safes were either fitted with internal coffers (money chests) or had multiple layers of internal defence by means of secondary security doors plus coffers. (see illustration). This had then effect of reducing the storage capacity to an almost unacceptable level but meant that the weight of security barrier materials was kept to the minimum.

    Spherical Safes had little capacity and were only suitable for securities, bullion, or cash.

    Because of the nature of the Underwriter's Laboratories test system large volume thief-resisting safes were a comparative rarity in the US. Jewellers, pawnbrokers, and the like, with large volume secure storage requirements therefore welcomed the importation of high volume cash safes in the '70s such as Chubb, Tann, SLS, ISM, etc. which allowed complete window displays of watches, rings, etc to be stored. Previously they had to be dismantled for storage in the coffers.

    Such imports had to meet the appropriate U.L certification such as Class TRTL-60x6.

  7. #7
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    There might have been a few instances where safes were rolled in and out but that would have not been very popular with the employees. In the latter 1800's very large money (bankers) chests on wheels were in use as well as the large 32,000 lbs. Corliss cannonball. Most of these disappeared in the war years in scrap drives for the metal. UL didn't exist then and many of these chests are as good as many of the newer UL rated safes. It all depends how they are attacked. The Corliss passed massive nitro and dynamite attacks performed by the US Army in 1893. I doubt many of the newer UL highly rated safes would fare as well. UL doesn't test with nitro.

  8. #8
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug MacQueen View Post
    There might have been a few instances where safes were rolled in and out but that would have not been very popular with the employees. In the latter 1800's very large money (bankers) chests on wheels were in use as well as the large 32,000 lbs. Corliss cannonball. Most of these disappeared in the war years in scrap drives for the metal. UL didn't exist then and many of these chests are as good as many of the newer UL rated safes. It all depends how they are attacked. The Corliss passed massive nitro and dynamite attacks performed by the US Army in 1893. I doubt many of the newer UL highly rated safes would fare as well. UL doesn't test with nitro.

    Thank you for your comments Doug. I got the information about moving the safes into the vault from the grandson of the UK agent for Mosler (c.1910). Maybe something was lost in translation over the generations.

    I understand there is a UL catagory Class TXTL-60X6 to include explosives.

  9. #9
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    Default

    Thanks guys, interesting replies.

    Doug, you mentioned a Corliss at 32,000lbs - that's over 14 tons plus the weight of the contents. Was it on wheels too? Not those little metal casters surely??! You would need a rail track for that one I suspect.

  10. #10
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    All the Corliss models had wheels. They were mounted under the platform or truck as they were sometimes called. Atop the first platform sits a second platform with a jackscrew at each corner. A collar sits on that platform and the ball sits onto the collar. The jackscrews allow for adjustment to ensure the inner ball is balanced and doesn't run. I do have a picture of one of 32,000 lbs. models installed in a bank which I will post as soon as I get my computer straightened out. The wheels are set into heavy wood? pads and the whole safe sits on a fairly thick wood ? board. Most likely the boards were used all the way across the floor with under the floor supports moved along with the load as well. That safe is now gone, most likely removed when a large round door vault was installed. Concerning UL, the 3 different burglary ratings are TL for tool, TR for torch and X or TX for explosives.

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