Weis Safe & Lock Company

[Cannon]

Dad just acquired an older safe marked "Weis Safe & Lock Co. St. Louis" I can't seem to find any information on the Weis Safe company other than this one paragraph from a genealogy site:

John Pierre Weis . . . immigrated to St. Louis, Missouri, in 1874. John was a pioneer safe manufacturer and head of Weis Safe Company, 909 Market Street, for 40 years. His son Ernest took over when John retired around 1914.

I'd like to know a little more about Weis, and, if possible, get an idea of just how old this safe is. Also curious if any of you recognize the lock (I'm wondering if Weis made their own locks.)

Here are a few pictures:




There are a few additional pictures here:

[Doug MacQueen]

I haven't heard of Weis before but the lock is a Jos. L. Hall or his sons of Cincinnati,OH. It is possible the safe was also made by Hall and labeled by Weis. Based on the model of the lock my guess is it was made sometime in late 1800's to early 1900's.

[Cannon]

Thanks for the reply, Doug. When I first saw the safe, having never heard of Weis, I thought they might have simply been the original seller, putting their label on someone else's safe. Then the little blurb I found and quoted above made me think they might have been the manufacturer.

Any particular features I could photograph that would help you determine if it's a Hall safe?

[oldlock]

The lock strongly suggests Halls to me, or else someone made a close copy of one of the halls designs.

[andy]

Cannon,

Your safe is a Hall's Safe Company safe - not a Hall's Safe & Lock Company safe. The Hall's brothers started producing these safes around 1905, after their Supreme Court Case with HHM, cleared the way for them to produce safes using the name "Hall's".

Weis simply relabled the safe for advertising reasons. Unfortunately you didn't provide a serial number, so I can't "guess" the age or approximate date of manufacture.

Andy

[Doug MacQueen]

You are probably right that it was the Hall sons. According to Dunkel, HHM also made the lock. But I think they (the sons)started several years before the lawsuit. My notes say 1896. I have a copy of a cover sheet of a 1902 Halls catalog and they claim business from 1840 to 1902. And they went out of business in 1927. I don't have my copy of American Genius so I couldn't double check that.

[andy]

You are probably right that it was the Hall sons. According to Dunkel, HHM also made the lock. But I think they (the sons)started several years before the lawsuit. My notes say 1896. I have a copy of a cover sheet of a 1902 Halls catalog and they claim business from 1840 to 1902. And they went out of business in 1927. I don't have my copy of American Genius so I couldn't double check that.

Doug,

You are correct about Joseph Hall's sons leaving HHM in 1896 to start their own company, but because of the lawsuit brought on by HHM the company was started under the name "Donnell Safe Company". James W. Donnell was a partner with William and E.C. Hall.
There may have been some early safes which were released under the "Hall's Safe Company" label, before the lawsuit forced them to change the name.
They didn't start actively using the new Hall's Safe Company logo until Late 1905, early 1906 after the Supreme Court case. Interestingly there were several other cases between HHM and the Hall's that went back and forth finally ending in their favor around 1908. I know that they were manufacturing safes during the period between 1896 and 1905, which is probably why there were so many law suits.
I would love to see a copy of your early Hall's Safe & Lock catalog.

Andy

[Doug MacQueen]

Andy, I just found the reference about the Donnell Safe co. you mentioned which didn't seem quite right as no Donnell Safe Co. showed up on the Cincinnati directories in the 1890's or early 1900's. As near as I can tell Donnell was the general manager for the original Hall Safe & Lock Co. at the time up the H-H-M merger. He then in 1898? incorporates an Illinois company listed as "Hall's Safe and Lock Co." of Chicago and appears to be a only a Chicago dealer for the sons new company "Hall's Safe Co." of Cincinnati. In the complex lawsuit he is forced to drop the Hall name and is thereafter known as the Donnell Safe Co. Doug