Very old Yale tubular lockset

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22-04-19, 07:43 AM
YALE7750

Very old Yale tubular lockset

Hi everyone,

I’ve recently come across a very old Yale lockset which looks alot like a Sargent 8 line tubular. I believe it is a GY series lock (does this even exist?)

I don’t think it’s a D-1 tubular (which I have the parts diagrams for), and it definitely is not anything newer in the 5200,5300,5400 series. The two halves of the lock body are held together by a large metal ring that circles the entire thing. It is fastened to the door with large nuts that screw down on the knob collars under the decorative roses. The inside knob even has double retainers (2 poke holes opposite each other). The cylinder has the old style YALE logo with the border stamped on the plug just like many of the old mono locks did.

Any idea what model it is, how old it might be, or how to take it apart? Any info is greatly appreciated.
22-04-19, 02:16 PM
Timothy

Very old Yale tubular lockset

It would really help if you can post picture of the lock and would give us just idea of what lock you are talking about....Timothy.....
22-04-19, 04:50 PM
Pschiffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by YALE7750

Hi everyone,

I’ve recently come across a very old Yale lockset which looks alot like a Sargent 8 line tubular. I believe it is a GY series lock (does this even exist?)

I don’t think it’s a D-1 tubular (which I have the parts diagrams for), and it definitely is not anything newer in the 5200,5300,5400 series. The two halves of the lock body are held together by a large metal ring that circles the entire thing. It is fastened to the door with large nuts that screw down on the knob collars under the decorative roses. The inside knob even has double retainers (2 poke holes opposite each other). The cylinder has the old style YALE logo with the border stamped on the plug just like many of the old mono locks did.

Any idea what model it is, how old it might be, or how to take it apart? Any info is greatly appreciated.

Nothing like you describe found in my vintage Yale catalogs ca. 1929, 1959, 1969; that trademark design was said to have been in use from 1910-1959. An image would be helpful.

Pete Schifferli
22-04-19, 05:43 PM
YALE7750

2 Attachment(s)

Some pictures..

Here are a couple of photos of the lockset.... I've looked through catalogs and can't find it anywhere.
22-04-19, 06:52 PM
Pschiffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by YALE7750

Here are a couple of photos of the lockset.... I've looked through catalogs and can't find it anywhere.

I took the liberty of posting your images over on the ClearStar Security Network, a restricted access forum for professional locksmiths and safe-techs of which I am a member. Hopefully one of their extremely knowledgeable members will be able to help, and if so; I will report the results here.

Pete Schifferli
22-04-19, 08:47 PM
Timothy

Very old Yale tubular lockset

I have been doing lot of Yale door knob. This was the first i seen as only the latch it differ than what i have seen so far. The only thing i can think of it screw the big ring part back in and see if you can find a small pin hole around there. If there it that may be it to put a small tool in to pull the knob off. This only my guess and hoping Pete can find someone who know....Timothy.....
22-04-19, 09:41 PM
Timothy

1 Attachment(s)

Very old Yale tubular lockset

Here two Old Yale I'm talking about where hole at to get the knob off....Timothy.....
22-04-19, 10:32 PM
Pschiffe

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pschiffe

I took the liberty of posting your images over on the ClearStar Security Network, a restricted access forum for professional locksmiths and safe-techs of which I am a member. Hopefully one of their extremely knowledgeable members will be able to help, and if so; I will report the results here.
Pete Schifferli

Billy B. Edwards, Jr. (BBE)+ who is also a member here, reported over on ClearStar Security Network that this was likely a re-branded Challenger lockset, Challenger Lock & Hardware was once a division of Yale & Towne. Challenger dates back to 1937 and was sold to Yale & Towne in 1959 which phased out the Challenger operation and name in 1969*. Thus your lockset would likely date to that era. See thumbnail for a latch image he sourced from a ca 1950s catalog.

+BBE now retired, has had a long and distinguished career in the locksmith & hardware industry including a stint with Yale beginning in 1989
*The Builders Hardware Industry 1830s to 1990s, (c) 1996 by Walter H. McAninch, pg. 19

Pete Schifferli
23-04-19, 12:48 AM
YALE7750

thanks for all the research..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pschiffe

Billy B. Edwards, Jr. (BBE)+ who is also a member here, reported over on ClearStar Security Network that this was likely a re-branded Challenger lockset, Challenger Lock & Hardware was once a division of Yale & Towne. Challenger dates back to 1937 and was sold to Yale & Towne in 1959 which phased out the Challenger operation and name in 1969*. Thus your lockset would likely date to that era. See thumbnail for a latch image he sourced from a ca 1950s catalog.

+BBE now retired, has had a long and distinguished career in the locksmith & hardware industry including a stint with Yale beginning in 1989
*The Builders Hardware Industry 1830s to 1990s, (c) 1996 by Walter H. McAninch, pg. 19

Pete Schifferli

Thanks Pete for posting this on CleaStar; it never crossed my mind that this might be from one of the companies Yale bought out in the early 1900’s. I knew about Barrows & Sager, but not Challenger (as in Hollymade?). Now that’s a name most people have never heard of before.
23-04-19, 01:47 AM
Pschiffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by YALE7750

Thanks Pete for posting this on CleaStar; it never crossed my mind that this might be from one of the companies Yale bought out in the early 1900’s. I knew about Barrows & Sager, but not Challenger (as in Hollymade?). Now that’s a name most people have never heard of before.

Hollymade was apparently an earlier name for the Challenger Lock Co. According to Mr. McAninch's book, Hollymade Hardware Mfg. Co. was formed in 1940 and the company name changed to Challenger Lock Co. in 1953. I also sourced a Hollymade Hardware Mfg. Co. catalog ca 1966 which states "Division of Laing Industries Ltd." in Ontario, Canada. Apparently a different company?

Pete Schifferli
23-04-19, 02:22 PM
Timothy

Very old Yale tubular lockset

The Challenger lock as i recall only did it one time and that the last i ever heard. I'm sure may be able to buy these key somewhere but not going to find very many of these lock around.....Timothy.....
23-04-19, 03:29 PM
Timothy

2 Attachment(s)

Very old Yale tubular lockset

Found two Patent Number for Hollymade door knob.
23-04-19, 04:36 PM
Pschiffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timothy

Found two Patent Number for Hollymade door knob.

Interesting find Timothy, but it doesn't appear that either of those patents are like the Challenger lock in question!

Pete Schifferli
23-04-19, 05:40 PM
Timothy

Very old Yale tubular lockset

Yes I know. That will be the harder one to lock for, I'm still looking as you all know just about how many patent number they have for all these lock.....Timothy.....
25-04-19, 01:34 AM
YALE7750

Yes this is a difficult one...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timothy

Yes I know. That will be the harder one to lock for, I'm still looking as you all know just about how many patent number they have for all these lock.....Timothy.....

Normally I don't collect anything cylindrical or tubular, too modern.

I have two of these, one passage function and one entrance. It uses the standard Yale PARA keyway.

I just wish I could remember the model number...years ago I saw one like this in the typical red Yale box.
02-05-19, 08:55 PM
Grayhair

Eons ago I too ran across one of these. Based on the similarity to the Sargent 8 Line locks, I decided it was produced for Yale by Sargent during the time Yale was moving manufacturing.
This was based in part on a apocryphal story I'd heard years before: When Yale moved its manufacturing to Lenoir City, TN, employees at the old plant took exception to losing their jobs and sabotaged some equipment.
Sorry to muddy the waters even more.
02-05-19, 10:28 PM
Pschiffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grayhair

Eons ago I too ran across one of these. Based on the similarity to the Sargent 8 Line locks, I decided it was produced for Yale by Sargent during the time Yale was moving manufacturing.
This was based in part on a apocryphal story I'd heard years before: When Yale moved its manufacturing to Lenoir City, TN, employees at the old plant took exception to losing their jobs and sabotaged some equipment.
Sorry to muddy the waters even more.

Could be, I believe Yale moved to Lenoir City ca 1953. As you may know, after about sixty years; they subsequently shuttered that plant and moved manufacturing to Berlin, CT around 2012!

Pete Schifferli
04-05-19, 12:56 AM
Pschiffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pschiffe

Could be, I believe Yale moved to Lenoir City ca 1953. As you may know, after about sixty years; they subsequently shuttered that plant and moved manufacturing to Berlin, CT around 2012!
Pete Schifferli

I should have mentioned that Yale Commercial moved in with their ASSA ABLOY cousin, Corbin Russwin; into what was once described as the world's largest lock manufacturing plant in Berlin, CT. Some Corbin Russwin and Yale Commercial production was also transferred to Yale Mexico ASSA ABLOY at about that time.

Pete
04-05-19, 10:23 PM
BBE

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grayhair

Eons ago I too ran across one of these. Based on the similarity to the Sargent 8 Line locks, I decided it was produced for Yale by Sargent during the time Yale was moving manufacturing.
This was based in part on a apocryphal story I'd heard years before: When Yale moved its manufacturing to Lenoir City, TN, employees at the old plant took exception to losing their jobs and sabotaged some equipment.
Sorry to muddy the waters even more.

That makes a lot of sense. That lock chassis does look a lot like a Sargent 8 line. Makes me wonder if the picture I found in the Challenger catalog was a match after all.
BBE.