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I am trying to unlock a rusted antique safe. Ideally I'd like to crack it by manipulation. But if I have to drill it, I certainly will. I used a high-quality penetrating oil to get the dial to spin freely and the handle to move slightly. But, the dial stops hard on 55 and 71. Wondering what the mechanism looks like inside and what might be jammed. Thank you for the help!
Possible type: Baum or Syracuse
Height to floor: 30 3/4"
Width: 19 11/16"
Depth: 20 1/8"
Imprinted on Dial: 3 5760
Warth-Baum. The dial grip is a dead give away.
If your familiar with the OB style of combination locks, your's has what I refer to as a Baum OB comb lock.
The dial jam you refer to could mean that the lock is in the open position.
DH
Thank you for this helpful information, David.
Do you or any else have a picture of the Baum OB Lock mechanism? If so, it would be very helpful to understand what is going on behind the locked door.
When I turn the dial CW, it stops at 71. Then I turn the dial CCW (passing 54 once and 71 once), and it stops on 54.
During the spinning of the dial, I hear a click as if it may be picking up another tumbler.
I have tried to turn the handle at every point on the dial (especially 71 and 54), but nothing gives.
Thank you for any additional information.
With the additional dialing information you supplied it does not sound as if the lock is open.
DH
Thank you for the cool picture of the mechanism!
It looks like the safe in the picture is smaller than my safe. I will assume the mechanism itself is the same size, and go from there.
It looks like a gravity fence, which probably means 100+ years of rust and therefore stuck in place.
My next step is to tilt the safe in various positions while hitting the dial and handle with penetrating oil. I hope I can get the penetrating oil into the safe around the fence!
Maybe the fence is jamming one tumbler and that's why the dial is stuck on only those two numbers? (See thread above for details)
Does anyone know how many tumblers there are and the sequence? Three number or four number combination?
Thank you very much for any additional help.
Does anyone know how many tumblers there are and the sequence? Three number or four number combination?
3 wheels and a driver.
4 times L to first #
3 times R to second #
2 times L to third #
right to stop
DH
Thank you again Dave for the dialing sequence and the cool picture. I am hoping to get the dial to spin freely at some point.
I am so puzzled as to why the dial is stuck on those two numbers! I've been trying to move the gravity fence with oil, turning the safe upside down, and then whacking it with a hammer. Nothing changes.
What could be stuck and why those numbers? It almost seems like I have some critical information and don't understand the meaning. Here is the exact sequence:
When I turn the dial CW, it stops at 71. Then I turn the dial CCW (passing 54 once and 71 once), and it stops on 54.
Sounds like some of your wheels are corroded in place. The drive cam and wheel #3 (in a three wheel lock) are free to move, but #1 and #2 are stuck. If your drive pins are 8.5 numbers wide, then that might explain why it's stopping 17 numbers away from your start point after a complete rotation.
What does it do when dialed CCW first, then CW?
Thank you, Shieldr for the reply.
When I turn the dial CCW first and then CW, the dial stops hard on the same numbers in the opposite order:
When I turn the dial CCW, it stops at 54. Then I turn the dial CW (passing 71 once and 54 once), and it stops on 71.
When I turn the dial CW, it stops at 71. Then I turn the dial CCW (passing 54 once and 71 once), and it stops on 54.
Please note: The stop is HARD on both numbers... something is banging into something. The dial itself doesn't feel stuck, slow, or corroded. I am hitting something that seems firmly in place.
Also, the dial bounces back in the opposite direction if I spin it hard.
Hope this helps solve the mystery.... thank you!
I think you have pretty well established the lock isn't working and unless you are prepared to force the dial further, it is time to drill. There are a couple ways to go with one being to sever the lock bolt itself. The door will be open and all will become clear. IIRC a nickle rod can be used to weld the cast iron bolt.
Andrew, what state is safe the located in? Maybe I can give you a referral.
DH
Thank you for the offer, David. But I am actually enjoying the process of trying to crack it myself.
I realize I may never do it, but I am going to give it 100% before I call a professional. I also realize that I may have to drill it at some point.
Based on how the dial stops hard on 54 and 71, I wonder if the fence shifted a bit and is bumping into dials 2 and 3?
Andrew, you seem clearly determined but when you say you realise you might never do it, but will give it 100% before calling in a pro, suggests you don't seem very confident.
Its worth considering that once you make the decision to get it open yourself and drill it, you might well have to see it through no matter how badly it goes.
Many safe techs will probably be reluctant to take it on after the owner has failed at drilling the safe themselves, the hazards of which are then in addition to the initial fault of the seized/trapped wheels in the lock.
From your point of view in case of worst case scenario and from the techs point of view there are few things worse than picking up the pieces on a safe with a serious fault, that is also peppered with random holes, jammed broken drill bits and bent bits of wire!
After spraying the safe with penetrating oil for several weeks, while changing the safe orientation, I was finally able to get the dial to spin freely.
It is no longer stuck on 54 and 71.
Perhaps these numbers are clues to the combination?
I assume there is a gravity fence in this safe, and I still can't be sure it is operating correctly.
Any additional help would be appreciated. Thank you.