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Hobbs & Co.
Hobbs Hart & Co.
The
Parautoptics and other change key locks.
Attachment 7287 Attachment 7288
M00076 - Hobbs made but to the Day & Newall design. 6 lever, 203 x 159mm.
M00079 - First production (sn:600) version with the Hobbs protector, anti-pressure, patent. Dated: 1863.
Hobbs Anti-Violence locks.
Attachment 7289
M00085 - Pr of double stump locks. sn: 26606, Provenance: from a demountable vault (Known as the Egyptian Box Vault), used during the Suez conflict. Vault now scraped.
Attachment 7290
M00083 - 12" lock & key with escutcheon and safe badge all with the same serial number - 35374. c1924
Attachment 7298
M00261 - Bankers triple control system. c1926
Hi everybody
Has anyone got any photos of the Egyptian Box Vault with the Hobbs progress E locks
Kent
Or an internal picture of the bank triple control lock?
am refurbing a couple of 18 inch violence locks at the moment, the pin version with key number 47911 I assume to be 1952-53 vintage, if I am using the right dating sheet Hobbs hart?
I also have a pipe key version without key and haven't found a serial number on that one yet, I have been told that the pipe key versions are the older ones, does anyone know what date they swapped, from pipe to pin?
the craftsmanship on these is nothing short of superb.
Gary, These are all the illustrations I can find at the moment. I had an 18" but didn't have the number. It had the thin brass plate under the top sliding bolts to prevent dirt particles from getting into the lock but I can't find the date for this modification. It had a pipe key.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Stephenson
Don't suppose these will answer any of your queries.
Attachment 23597Attachment 23598Attachment 23599
Cheers John, I had not seen that before, one of the ones I have is a pipe key version (no key with it) and it has the dirt shield on the sliding bolts, I was told this is because the lock was mounted horizontally on the door, this lock doesn't have the spring assist to ease the weight of the bolt, I thought this was because of the orientation, but according to your info the early ones didn't have this bolt assist lever and leaf spring. I will put up some photos. first one is 47911 pin type key
the pipe key version
Amazing locks those Gary, agree on the craftsmanship-the build quality, construction and precision is on another level. Although I expect tom will be along sometime to say chatwood's stuff was even better :-0Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Stephenson
Can't answer the question but know from all the Milners I've had and worked on ,recall they changed from pipe to pin on the powderproof stuff sometime between the late 1890s and a couple of years before WW1, say roughly 1912.
Possibly a knock on effect started by one of the big makers and the others then copied but I don't know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huw Eastwood
Cant' answer the question either but know from experience that Milners with a drill pin inside the collar is much more difficult to blow successfully even with Gelignite (1875 onwards) as the charging instruments have much less room in which to operate. Before that time the Gunpowder-Proof design prevented all but a thimbleful of the powder charge to be introduced which was totally ineffective, even when placed over the top of the collar.
The thinner wall of the pipe key also had a durability disadvantages.
Interesting that John, amazing how such a small component like the drill-pin can make such a big difference, same for picking resistance too I'd say. Not that a Milners powderproof with pin keys was ever an easy pick(!!), but the drill-pin in the bolt-thrower of the early pipe versions additionally restricts space for tension tools and wires and limits 2-in-1 type picks.
I retro-modified quite a few modern locks to pipe keys in the 90s as an additional measure to frustrate and combat commercially available picks-even did a few pipe versions of Mersey locks for extreme situations that required it!
I remember seeing a picture of your pipe key Mersey, very nice, I know a collector who has all the versions of the Mersey, will have to show him a picture of your pipe key version 8-)
cheers Gary, I've still got most of them somewhere. Experimented with a few designs- stainless drill pins in plastic and delrin curtains, moulded and machined variants but best were riveted hardened pins in machined brass- much more difficult to remove under attack than the delrin ones. I've got one I made here somewhere with a detachable bit on an 18 inch or so stem.
if you have any pictures of them, post them up, always interesting
Attachment 23623Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Stephenson
Cheers , happy new year to all, wonder what lock that key fit?
Happy hangover Gary,Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Stephenson
Not familiar territory as you know Gary, but here's a possibility.
Attachment 23624Acknowledgement 'Lock Collectors'.
Seeing that Hobb's key got me thinking what's the longest stems out there with detachable bits? i'd imagine there's gotta be some three footers out there somewhere!
Attachment 23627Quote:
Originally Posted by HoL
That Hobb's is a work of art John! A real box of tricks- frightening where so called progress has led to really, when you compare that with the pressed steel and zinc diecast VdS rubbish of today!
18 inch stems seem about the longest that's commonly encountered, but there's got to be some extreme examples out there.
Chatwood's old BoE doors were mostly keylocks iirc, and Chubb's 33 inch thick treasury doors were offered with key or comb options.
This massive Parma door has a pretty impressive key stem, complete with La-fetton style guide for the bow. Might be 60cm+, but difficult to tell from the photo.
Attachment 23628
London is probably the place in the UK for thick doors, thickest slab doors with keylocks I have seen up north was a 16 inch main slab door
Huw you are right about the level of craftsmanship, thought, and detail that went into those Hobbs Locks and Keys.
Nothing around these days that compare.
Just out of interest, does anyone know what is the best high security key lock on the market these days that causes the most issues to pick?
From what I can gather, there is a pick for just about every key lock available, and in the hands of the skilled operator, none of the key locks cause too many issues.