Yale 101-1/2 comb lock

The pictures posted here, and in following posts, are of the later 3 wheel key change version, where the change key used is actually a Yale paracentric pin tumbler key. I know there are some curious locksmiths as well as collectors out there who would love to open one these locks up. Hopefully the postings will satisfy the curious. Working with the lock can be difficult. Even changing the combination can present problems. These first pictures will show the changeable wheel design and how it is similar to the standard Yale hand change wheel. Like the standard wheel there is an outer and inner wheel section. Unlike the standard wheel, there is not an internal circular brass spring clip installed in the outer wheel section. This means the the outer and inner wheel sections will easily separate and mesh back together allowing for a comb change. Note there are 100 teeth on the wheels, one tooth per number.

Here is a side view of the standard and 101-1/2 wheels.

Note the 101 has a smaller depth of tooth engagement than the standard wheel. These two pictures show the engaged and disengaged positions of the wheel which occur in changing the comb. Not much movement is required to disengage the two wheel sections.

Here is the back side of the wheel. The inner wheel is disengaged when the inner wheel is flush with the thin rim of the outer wheel.

Here is an Ely Norris double dial cannonball and it is the only safe where the Yale 101-1/2 lock is used. There are other double dial cannonballs out there, but they use different locks.

Here is the lock prior to takedown. As you can see the wheels are well concealed. Offset drive with redundant wheel pack, meaning only one is needed to open the lock. It cannot be set to dual custody.

When changing the comb, the outer wheel sections are moved out of engagement from the inner wheel. This is accomplished with a simple turn of the key, but the design of the parts to pull this off is not so simple. A cage surrounding the wheels is center hung similar to the door and crane hinge of the cannonball. This allows for a straight albeit slight in and out movement of the wheel cage as the key is rotated.

A couple more pics.

This wheel cage cap is not just a cover but is an integral part of the changing mechanism. It also deserves mention as being one part you don't want to remove, unless there is a very good reason to do so. Note the very fine but interrupted threading. Beginner locksmiths will remember the care required to install mortise cylinders without cross threading them. Well those 32 tpi mortise cylinders are a piece of cake compared to these almost 2" x interrupted 40 tpi caps.

Here are the 3 outer wheels and the spacer blocks that hold the outer wheels in alignment. The spacer blocks lock into the cage so they stay in position. There is a rim at the bottom of the cage and the cap on top holds everything together. Move the cage and the outer wheels go with it.

Adjusting for fly and drive pin wear in Yale hand change locks can be a challenge. This wear can also cause difficulty with a comb change on the 101-1/2. When new, the wheel spline teeth should align properly, allowing the outer wheel to easily re-engage the inner wheel. Difficulty in getting the change key to return to vertical is a good indication the teeth on one or more wheels are misaligned. Before tearing into the lock to see what the problem is, experiment with positioning the wheels slightly off the index mark, starting with the 3 rd number. Identifying this type of problem is virtually impossible with the lock disassembled. Once the key turns back to to vertical, find the centers of the wheel gates through dialing diagnostics and live with the fact one or more numbers of the comb may work best at half numbers.

Next up are the keylocks used to change the combinations. It would be unusual to find much wear on these keys and locks, meaning it would be a rare case where the locks would need to be removed. Even loss of the keys is not a big deal for any locksmith worth his salt. Note only the last three pins are used on the extremely common Yale 8 key. What looks like dirt on the end shot of the lock is actually flake graphite used to lubricate the lock.

A second function performed by the keylock is to move the catch lever into the double notches in the outer wheels. This holds the outer wheels stationary as the inner wheels are repositioned during the comb change.

I had to look up what the catch lever was called. Brake lever does sound better. The patent was filed in Jan of 1907. Diebold also patented a side change lock for one their cannonball models, meant to compete with the Ely compound door. Don't know if the Diebold ever saw production.

Hello Doug
Thank for good information on your lock. Was having problem trying to find patent number for 1066629 on Google. Where did you get this patent number or I'm missing something....Timothy......

Most of my patent copies were right out of the patent books. Not sure why it doesn't come up. Try googling B.F. Klohs and it should come up. Unfortunately the lock is not mine but from a restoration job. Since the lock had to come off the safe anyway, I decided to do this pictorial of the lock.

I almost never use Google for patent searches unless it's something the US patent office can't do (such as search older patents by inventor name), or I'm not looking for a US patent.

In this case Google Patents (http://patents.google.com), given 1066629 as the search term, comes up with foreign patent GB1066629A which is for a loading apparatus for a lorry. It does, however, prompt you with other possibilities including US1066629A which is the one in question. Of course the US patent office comes up with the patent of interest given that number.

Is that the difficulty you were having?

Wylk, I was hoping you might have some input regarding patent searches. Here are pictures showing the bolt retraction connecting linkage. Note however the bolt didn't retract even though the linkage moved into the opening position. To the few of you who are actually studying this post, any ideas as to why this occurred? There will be a little something in your stocking if you get it right.

I think you need the other side to be in place as well, which would provide a "stationary" set of teeth for the pinion to roll against and in doing so, move the bolt? Sort of like a rack and pinion. Otherwise the pinion simply rotates on its axis.

Wylk is right. I had to go back and study the pictures but when I saw the one with both linkages in place I first thought how could it move? Ahh, that's why there is the slot on the linkage. The other linkage locks the pivot gear on the bolt to move it and complete the action.

http://www.antique-locks.com/images/.../23j33x2-1.jpg

Yes, not surprisingly, Wylk is correct. A few more pictures to take and the lock will be back together, so if there are questions, ask them now. It will be several months before the lock is installed back into the safe, but I am making up a mounting stand so the lock can be checked for proper operation. On the safe , one dial was hard to turn, so checking it on the mounting stand will help to locate where the problem is. And so far it looks like it was a mounting alignment problem in the safe.

Seeing that you are going to mount it up, how about making a video of the lock in action? I know it can be a challenge to make one but maybe you can round up a family or neighborhood teenager that could whip it up and edit it in minutes on his phone?

Most of us could never hope to see one in action.

24 March 2017

I enjoyed this post on the Yale lock. I have this on my Ely Norris. I have not attempted to change the combination. Both dial are set on 50. How difficult or risky is it?

Also, have you seen the monster Corliss for sale on Ebay?

Texaschilli

The first Ely-Norris I disassembled had a lock like yours. For the curious, here's another version of the Yale 101 1/2. It's a little different.

I pulled this one from a cannonball that was slated to be melted down. The best part? When I opened it, it still contained the entire timelock assembly!

12 October 2017

Mr. MacQueen,

I would like to ask for your assistance. I removed the Yale Y361 time lock from my Eli Norris cannonball for safekeeping while it was sanded and painted. That turned into a disaster, and the person kept my safe over 540 days then blasted it with no prep.

The timelock worked perfectly before I pulled it out. Now the spring motor will not retract the locking bolts. Is there a trick to putting the timelock back in like prewinding the spring or something to create tension?

My winding disc only turns about a quarter turn before engaging the locking pawls of the clocks and there is not enough energy stored in the spring to retract the bolts when the clocks time out. The bolts retract about a third of the way and hang.

Thanks for any insight,

Jody Sims

Jody, post a picture of the time lock so I can see the position of the mainspring winding disc. Also if you took pictures as you disassembled the time lock post them as well. I am unable to post pictures onthe forum at this time. But to answer your question, yes the mainspring requires a preload to fully retract the bolts. There are other possible causes of your problem, such as are the bolts freely moving in the door bolt holes. Was the slotted pinion gear properly aligned with the mainspring pinion? It has been a couple years since I last worked on one and have to relearn how they work every time. Anyway as long as you are not in a hurry, I am currently cleaning and lubing the movements of a Y-361 and when finished will be checking it for proper operation. As I do this I will photograph the assembly. By then I should be able to post the pictures, but that won't happen real soon.

Mr. MacQueen,

On my Ely-Norris safe, the trim ring around the Y-361 timelock does not have a cut out or notch around the timelock cover hinge. So there it is impossible to remove the trim ring from around the brass timelock case without taking out the part that holds the watch mechanisms. That gives access to four bolts that secures the case to the safe door. The brass timelock case has to be removed to get the trim ring off. So I did that which expose the locking mechanism.

I did not disassemble the lock works, other than to take off the gear that engages the spring motor. It is keyed so can only go back one way. I put it back with the engraved numbers facing out which is how the gear came off. It has play in it by way of two slots and can rotate about a quarter turn. This seems to be so that when the locking bolts are released then the gear can rotate without having to wind the spring motor. Otherwise the release springs would be fighting against the winding springs. Right??

I think when I removed the part holding the clocks from the brass case, then the spring motor might or must have come unwound some and lost tension. I just cannot remember. I have never removed the spring motor from the case and would not be dumb enough to mess with it. It looks fine and I have sprayed it with WD-40 and then some Remington Gun oil. There seem to be two of them.

Because of the way the time lock case must be removed for the trim ring around it to be removed, I am at a loss to figure out how to put the clocks and case with the spring motor back together. There is no way that I can see to assemble the two together and install as a single unit. The clock mechanism blocks access to the four bolts that secure the base to the safe door.

Here is a picture of the timelock winding disc, but with it detached from the spring motor it can rotate to most any position. The lug on the back has a bevel so that it attaches to the spring motor only in one way.


Hope you can help me.


Jody Sims

Mr. MacQueen,

You pointed me in the right direction and were spot on that the spring motor has to be pre-tensioned. I found this picture I took of the spring motor spring before I removed the time lock case. I stuck a screwdriver in the square hole and wound the spring and held it as I engaged the spring motor square shaft with the pinion and bolted the brass case back in.

My timeclock is working fine now.

Thanks again for the tip.

Jody Sims

Jody, glad to be of help. It is common on spring loaded devices to have a preload and this includes the time lock movements themselves. Doug

Mr. McQueen,

Thank you for all your help in the past. I haven't been on this site for a while. I have an Ely Norris Cannonball with the Yale dual locks. My problem is the dials have become increasingly harder and harder to turn. Is there a way to lubricate the two combination locks?

Thanks,

Jody Sims