Corbin "SP" CO. Padlock....

I'm sure all have seen this padlock. I has is for a long time trying to impression this padlock. Also was hard to pick because these are ball bearing pins. I just got to point by looking at other padlock on eBay that look like my until I found one key that has key cut stamp. Thinking about it and went a head to cut the key by 0-9-0-9-0-9. Surprise me that key work. Now got a working key to open this padlock. I think that most of Rail Road padlock that look like my ma come in key code 0-9-0-9-0-9. I have see three or more of it on eBay same cut.....Tmothy....

Good job, looks a nice lock. What are the ball bearing pins that made it harder to pick?

Corbin sometimes used ball bearings in the pin stacks, as a means of minimising wear and tear on both keys and key pins in locks subjected to heavy usage. In my experience, it is often limited to the first few pin stacks in a lock, closest to the front of the keyway.

Where a standard pin stack would have a spring, a driver pin & a key pin, Corbin would have a spring, a driver pin, a key pin and then a ball bearing.

I've not found that the ball bearings make picking more difficult, however the Corbin locks I found them in were made to very fine tolerances, which obviously does make picking more challenging.

I suspect it is more the high-low-high-low bitting pattern in the padlock above that made it hard to pick, than the ball bearings.

I've never tried to impression a lock with ball bearings in the pin stacks. On one hand their shape might make them leave more subtle marks than a pointy key pin, but on the other hand ball bearings are very hard & should impress well upon the softer blank. I'd be interested to hear if they marked well or not!

...Mark

Just after pressing send, I remembered that these padlocks use the Corbin master ring system, and thus have two independent shear lines - this would certainly add to difficulty when picking or impressioning!

Mercury
You gave good information about ball bearing. As talking about impression it was hard as don't show to much mark to see. The only reason this one so hard because of the way it set the pins up. I have done a few padlock that does have ball bearing in it was not too bad to do it but take time. I'm just glad I finally got this padlock with working key....Timothy.....

Nice job Timothy!

I have two of these locks, one is three pin with a key and the other seems to be a 5 pin lock without a key.
Yours looks like it has 6 pins.
Is there that much of a variation to these locks?
I am not that good at picking yet and have not been able to open the 5 pin lock.

I find it difficult to make out the number on the key blank. Is it ILCO 1001DA?

Thanks for that mercury, nicely explained it's an interesting concept with the ball bearings and have never heard of it before, cheers,

Candado 3
Yes is it 1001DA for six pins The first time was thinking as five pins by using five pins key blank but found out the first one was a no cut "0" with five cut 9-0-9-0-9. Need to feel your pins by using the pick tool to be sure using six pins key blank.

HUW
They do have them in Corbin cylinder lock, Russwin lock also have it. Don't know of any other lock manufactured use it ..Timothy.....

Thanks Timothy, can't recall seeing them over here or mention of the ball bearings combined between the pins before, it's an interesting one, cheers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Huw Eastwood

Thanks Timothy, can't recall seeing them over here or mention of the ball bearings combined between the pins before, it's an interesting one, cheers.

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From Corbin Russwin Cylinder/Keying Parts & Service Manual, earlier versions originally edited by the late Anthony "A.J." Hoffman, pg. 55:
You will find a ball bearing at the bottom of pin stacks in some or all chambers of Corbin and Russwin cylinders manufactured from about 1902 until the mid 1960s. The oldest cylinders have a ball in every chamber. The number of balls was gradually reduced until only the front two chambers had them. The purpose of the balls was to reduce wear on the pins. As harder brass became available, wear became less of a factor, so usage of the balls was eventually phased out.

In my personal experience, I have found that after heavy usage over a period of many years; that the balls often developed a "flat" at the point where they met the top pin. This slight amount of wear could make the key more difficult to turn since the pin was then a tad below the shear line due to the slightly reduced diameter of the ball.

Pete Schifferli

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Timothy

Candado 3
Yes is it 1001DA for six pins The first time was thinking as five pins by using five pins key blank but found out the first one was a no cut "0" with five cut 9-0-9-0-9. Need to feel your pins by using the pick tool to be sure using six pins key blank.

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This is the Corbin Cabinet Lock (now CCL Security Products) "BR" keyway, not to be confused with the similarly lettered "BR" keyway (Ilco 1001GB) used by its former sister company P & F Corbin (now Corbin Russwin). The three iterations of the CCL "BR" section were:

• 4-pin 4192C-BR (1001DB Old Ilco)
• 5-pin 4193C-BR (1001D Ilco)
• 6-pin S4195C-BR (1001DA Ilco)

Only the 5-pin blank is still available in an OEM version from CCL Security Products.

Pete Schifferli

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Timothy

HUW
They do have them in Corbin cylinder lock, Russwin lock also have it. Don't know of any other lock manufactured use it ..Timothy.....

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Some mogul cylinders for prison locks also use them.

Here Picture of the Corbin Padlock with ball bearig. I also took picture of Russwin pins. Yes this as five ball bearing....Timothy.....

Here another information only the size of ball bearing: 1902-1960's .116" ballbearings were inserted to reduce wear until harder brass was available for keyblanks. All five chambers of Corbin and Russwin used to contain ball bearingsuntil 'lock combing' became an issue. Ball bearings wear gradually reduceduntil only the first two chambers contained them. The older the lock, the morethe bearings....Timothy......

Gents, this is interesting stuff indeed, the use of the term 'ball bearings' has got me extremely curious.
Were they actually ball bearings, as in extremely hard, case-hardened balls intended for bearing races, or were they just steel balls made for the purpose? A simple 'file test' would obviously be a very quick way to reveal what's what.

Good question that what I try to find out. I have no answer of what they call for the lock but I'm sure everyone know it ball bearing or steel ball, Just maybe someone may come up with answer...Timothy....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Huw Eastwood

Gents, this is interesting stuff indeed, the use of the term 'ball bearings' has got me extremely curious.
Were they actually ball bearings, as in extremely hard, case-hardened balls intended for bearing races, or were they just steel balls made for the purpose? A simple 'file test' would obviously be a very quick way to reveal what's what.

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I'm guessing that they were likely chrome finished hardened alloy steel which would be typical for bearing balls. Note that Corbin Russwin now offers P/N 159F36-7 .116" stainless steel balls "if you have a problem with pin wear in high traffic cylinders". Caveat from their Cylinder Manual: Do not use a ball in every chamber. This creates a security risk because a bypass tool called a "lock comb" can be used to raise all balls to the shear line and operate the cylinder. I found their P/N 159F36-7 "ball bearing for wear resistance" in the Corbin Russwin Parts Price List #30, 9/1/17 @ $.40 ea. list, sold in multiples of 100 pieces.

Pete Schifferli

Timothy,i just took apart a corbin ptpk (like 805 yale). First one i found with a master wafer and 2 ball bearings.
I know ball bearings are used in corbin/russwin s and a lot of kwickset and others on construction sites,
this is the first ball bearing i found in a pushkey. Found lot of eagle's and yales mastered but none with ball bearings.
this one also had a broken key and is pretty much gone as a lock,only good for parts for others i have.

PG&E uses a similar bitting on their padlocks.