Need parts for my old Milners safe

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02-10-13, 02:58 AM
serrurierjarb

Need parts for my old Milners safe

Hello all. I have an old milners safe(serial 113711). Need a lot of parts to restore the unit. It's a safe with styling trims on the door, with flowers in the corners. The round plate is missing on the top of the door, the banner is missing on the lower part of the door, the sliding cover on the key cover plate is missing and the handle(knob or lever?) is missing too. This is a special safe for us here with a long story. The body was black and the center of the door was green. I have the key but the head is missing. Inside, there is nothing. No drawer, no shelve. The inside color seem to be a old flat red primer. On the back of the door, there is a poster with different Milner's safe pictures. Unfortunately, this poster is really damaged. If someone can help, you are welcome. Any informations or parts will be a great gift for me. I can pay for the parts and the shipping from anywhere.
Thanks in advance.
02-10-13, 04:51 AM
serrurierjarb

5 Attachment(s)

Some pics

Here are some pics to help identification.
02-10-13, 10:29 PM
engineer

The Milner Safe

You will be able to pick up some of the brass work from Ebay UK. The escutcheon could be replaced entirely.
Most of the parts are quite cheep but you need to ensure you bid on the correct ones. Compare your safe to library photos to see the design of the missing bits
03-10-13, 12:35 AM
serrurierjarb

Milners identification and parts.

Thanks for your answer and your trick, I am on ebay from long time but not easy to find. There are many styles and models. This is why I am trying to get more informations about my safe. I need to be able to know what was the escutcheon and the banner, the knob, etc... Any help will be appreciated.
03-10-13, 10:49 PM
Huntlocks

The handle on my larger version was a big plane L-shaped lever. Solid brass.
06-10-13, 11:58 PM
Huntlocks

Try link www.safeman.org.uk just seen it in safes. There is a pic of your safe as it would have been 'done up' a few years ago. The handle is the same as the one I had in store. Boltwork looks the same. I searched for a photo in my archives but no luck.
09-10-13, 08:05 PM
Tom Gordon

Quote:

Originally Posted by serrurierjarb

Hello all. I have an old milners safe(serial 113711). Need a lot of parts to restore the unit. It's a safe with styling trims on the door, with flowers in the corners. The round plate is missing on the top of the door, the banner is missing on the lower part of the door, the sliding cover on the key cover plate is missing and the handle(knob or lever?) is missing too. This is a special safe for us here with a long story. The body was black and the center of the door was green. I have the key but the head is missing. Inside, there is nothing. No drawer, no shelve. The inside color seem to be a old flat red primer. On the back of the door, there is a poster with different Milner's safe pictures. Unfortunately, this poster is really damaged. If someone can help, you are welcome. Any informations or parts will be a great gift for me. I can pay for the parts and the shipping from anywhere.
Thanks in advance.

If you did enough measurements then I could help you with the nameplaque, escutcheon and swag but you would have to get the handle from someone else
Tom
14-10-13, 07:11 PM
serrurierjarb

2 Attachment(s)

mesurements infos

Hello Tom

I have finally my informations. The safe's external dimentions are 28 inches high, 22 inches wide, 22 inches deep. The round plate has 8 inches. The banner, left to the right, 9 3/4 inches. The ring under the handle had 2 1/2. I have took all the mesurements with the print on the paint surface.

For the handle, I don't know what kind it was. Round Knob? Octagonal Knob? Lever?

Give me all what you can on that safe specifications. Also, I have place two pictures of the key I have. The head is not the original one but I don't know for the rest. Can you give your opinion.

Thanks
15-10-13, 09:58 PM
Tom Gordon

You would need to measure in mm the exact distances between the centre of the screw holes on each
24-10-13, 03:15 PM
safeman

3 Attachment(s)

Your Milner Safe.

This appears to be a Milner List 3 'Strong Holdfast' safe made around 1869.

The body as can be seen under the front band is 1/4" wrought iron plate. The anti-wedging dove-tail door blocks were the subject of Patent No. 903 taken out by W.Milner and D R Ratcliff in 1865 prompted by the failure of Milner's previous model which received much bad publicity having been wedged open in the Cornhill Robbery the same year.

The idea for these blocks was conceived by a Manchester detective by the name of Sutcliffe before being taken up by Milners and subsequently after expiry of the patent by many other makers.

I suggest that the bolt operating handle would have been a round or hexagonal shape as was usual on a round spindle.

I attach rather poor copies of advertising labels of a type similar to that on the back of the fire chamber.
Attachment 8881 Attachment 8883 Attachment 8882
24-10-13, 03:25 PM
Tom Gordon

Quote:

Originally Posted by safeman

The anti-wedging dove-tail door blocks were the subject of Patent No. 903 taken out by W.Milner and D R Ratcliff in 1865 prompted by the failure of Milner's previous model which received much bad publicity having been wedged open in the Cornhill Robbery the same year.
The idea for these blocks was taken up by Milners and subsequently after expiry of the patent by many other makers.

Although Chatwood went one better without needing to wait for the patent to run out -instead of attaching blocks, he made the bolts both wedged and hooked.
25-10-13, 03:56 PM
safeman

2 Attachment(s)

Early Milner Holdfast pictures.

Attachment 8930 Attachment 8931
The safe on the left is an earlier version than yours and the one on the right is later.

I would doubt that the green one is original finish but the one on the right would appear correct for the time.
26-10-13, 03:19 PM
serrurierjarb

7 Attachment(s)

measurements

Hello Tom and Safeman (And all others :)

Many thanks for the informations and the pics. I have now all the measurements in mm. Hope it can help more. For the handle, I also think that it was a knob and not a lever. But nothing is sure at this point. Give me your comments about the key. How was the original key head? Is it the original tip? You know, when my father found the safe in 1964, I think that the key was broken in the hole. This is why he didn't make any hole in the door. He has probably welded one standard brass head to use the key.
I have also place some pics from ebay, similar to my safe. Thanks to compare.
03-11-13, 02:47 PM
Parautoptic

I am intrigued... Care to share the (long) story? You say your father found it in 1964, the year of my birth. I now feel really olde :=(:

Quote:

Originally Posted by serrurierjarb

This is a special safe for us here with a long story.
21-11-13, 05:03 AM
serrurierjarb

Mesurments in mm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Gordon

You would need to measure in mm the exact distances between the centre of the screw holes on each

Hello Tom. Can take a look on the pics with mesurments in the past thread. Give me your comments :(hi): Thanks.