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Does anyone have any old Yale key blanks for this padlock? The blanks are Yale PL as seen stamped on the key. They look to also have been used for old obsolete safe deposit box cylinders. The keys that came with many of these locks I have gotten from different sources look new not worn at all so someone has access to them. I would like as many as I can get but be happy with any I can find.
Richard
We had a box of the nickel silver blanks in our old workshop, whether they're still there 10+years on is another matter but I will have a look.
Huw
Had any luck finding the Yale PL blanks yet?
You seem to be the only hope so far of getting any.
Please look hard for them will pay whatever you want.
Richard
LOT OF 50 Yale RN11 PL Key Blanks New on ebay now.good luck
forgot i think it is $19.00
Thanks for the link
Although they are RN11 PL which is for full size commercial door locks they do indeed say PL on them. The padlock is small and has only 4 pin blank with a head the size you see for desks and file cabinet keys. If they can be cut down and fit in the keyway they will work but look very strange being so much cut off the blade and the head being so huge. LOL
For $19.00 free shipping worth the risk to see if they will even fit I guess. These are probably the same ones that Huw seen in his old shop. I messaged the guy to see if he can send end shot of the blank and better shots of both sides to see if it is the same as it looks a little different in those pictures.
Thanks
Richard
Haven't been over there yet but will have a look when I do. The ones I had in mind were full size although we did have junior Yales i won't know what or what's left until I get time to go and look.
Huw
Great thanks. Looking for the small size ones for sure. I don't know what the number would be. These full size ones say RN11 PL maybe the smaller ones are EN11 PL or maybe EN10 PL? The key is a 4 pin but even 5 pin small head would be perfect. The key that works doesn't have the bottom shoulder like the large ones do. I did grab a box of the large ones to be safe they don't slip away to see if they are even the right keyway. If not I can resale them back on ebay or just keep them.
Thanks
Richard
maybe a yale J,they are v5-6 pin,if it fits then find the 4 pin - 5 pin # ???
Apparently made for Peoples Gas Light & Coke Co., a natural gas utility still in business serving the Chicago, Il area; maybe Old Ilco 997BA, crosses to 18 Keil, 428 Niesen and 2603D Graham all of which are l-o-n-g obsolete? see thumbnail attached.
Pete Schifferli
Nathan,Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanbonstein
J is not a simplex key section but rather the designation for the J-series multiplex family JA, JB, JC, JD, JE, JF, JG, JH & JK with the all-section master as JMK, made in 3, 4, 5 & 6-pin versions; see thumbnail attached
Pete Schifferli
Good to know the Old Ilco 997BA number for the Yale PL blank. Thanks for finding that. Still is the full size key with standard large head and blade height. Wondering what the Yale or Ilco number is for the small blank that the head and blade height is the size of like a Yale JA or X10 1/2 blank surprised they made both large and small in the PL keyway. Thinking it might be EN10 PL?
Richard
997BA is the small size (.40 dia. plug) key. In theory the Yale nomenclature would be RN10PL (4-pin) but if it is indeed denoted as PL section, it is long obsolete and/or end-user restricted. Note that the RN prefix denotes round bow nickel silver while EN is for the Eaton bow nickel silver which was used when Yale was owned by Eaton Corp. from about 1963 to 1979, but discontinued subsequent to that date under yet another change in ownership.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWizard
Pete Schifferli
Pete
Thanks for all that clarification. RN = Round Nickel silver 10 being .40 dia plug. Thus RN11 = .50 dia. EN = Eaton Nickel.
Eaton made those never popular offset square head bow that hang crooked on the keyring. I have boxes of them I could never sell. What were they thinking with those.
Richard
The integer or basic model number embedded within the catalog number of Yale pin tumbler key blanks denotes both the plug diameter and number of pins, the most common being:Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWizard
- 8 = 5-pin, .51" dia
- 9 = 4-pin, .51" dia
- 10 = 4-pin, .40" dia
- 11 = 6-pin, .51" dia
- 12 = 6-pin, .40" dia
- 13 = 6-pin, .40" dia
- 19 = 3-pin, .40" dia
- 117 = 7-pin, .51" dia
- 118 = 8-pin, .51" dia
- 211 = 7-3/4 pin, .51" dia
- 411 = 7-1/2 pin, .51" dia
The .40" dia. plugs were mainly used on cabinet locks, a business that Yale exited decades ago.
See pdf Yale Cylinders/Keys - Cylinders and Keying Manual at the link, note especially pgs. 19-21:
http://content.assaabloyusa.com/cs/g...dss1013399.pdf
Pete Schifferli
It's been a long time and my memory isn't as sharp as it once was, but hopefully Billy Edwards will show up before long and either confirm or dispute what follows. I defer to him in advance.
As I think someone said, P is a proprietary multiplex sectional series (PA thru PH). While there is a PMK blank that passes all P multiplex keyways, there is no corresponding keyway that accepts only the PMK blank. The is also an L proprietary sectional series and LMK blank.
Page 21 in the document Pete referenced in post #15, shows the G, S and T multiplex keyways, their associated xMK blanks and a GST blank that passes ALL the G, S and T multiplex keyways. Note that while each group has a xMK blank, the GST blank is not marked GSTMK.
Not shown are GS, ST and GT blanks, each passing the indicated groups of keyways. They exist, but are rarely used. Again, take notice of the 2-letter indicators without the trailing MK.
Take a close look at the pictures of the RN11PL blanks from post #4. It could be these old eyes, but they appear to be multi-section MK blanks; probably passing all P and L multiplex keyways.
I wouldn't pretend to be as knowledgeable as BBE but I can tell you that the V-Series is the reverse of the G-Series, the Y-Series is the reverse of the S-Series and the Z-Series is the reverse of the T-Series. Also the K-Series is the reverse of the J-Series. Manufacturers can save tooling and design costs by reversing the same milling cutters used in production and thereby create new keyways. As you surmise, there are also L-Series and P-Series which are restricted. I agree with your supposition that PL is indeed the multi-milled master to fit both L and P-Series. I actually had a couple in stock which I had forgotten and they are indeed RN11PL, see thumbnail attached.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grayhair
Pete Schifferli
There are three standard triple multiplex key sections made by Yale. The most commonly known for .51"plugs are the GST and the reverse VYZ. Less commonly known is the GLP. L and P were designed in error and can actually enter various GST keyways and for that reason were very seldom used once the interchange was discovered.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pschiffe
There are 9 individual sections in each multiplex named with a first letter that indicates the family it is part of, e.g., GA, GB, GC, GD, GE, GF , GG, GH and GK were the first 9 designed in 1892. The original names were not GA through GK. The GA was originally named G1R, GB was G1L, GC was G2R, GD was 2L, GE was G3R, GF was G3L, GG was G4, GH was G5 and GK was G6. Those first names we much too hard to remember and were only used until 1896.
BBE.
Thanks very interesting and see that theyQuote:
Originally Posted by Grayhair
are multi section MK blanks makes sense being marked PL now.
Still waiting for this box of RN11PL to arrive should be here today. I am still looking for the smaller RN10PL blanks if anyone runs across them.
Richard
Have you found satisfactory key blanks yet?
If not, I may have some that might fit.
They are unmarked about .240" high and .856" long.
I will add photos.
If you think that they will fit I can send you a couple.
PM me your address.
I don't think there is such as blank as RN10PL! To paraphrase Billy B. Edwards, the L & P sections were .51" dia., not .40".Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWizard
Pete Schifferli
i found they fit y4,998s keyways and a little tight on my 998gb and very tight on the ge keyways ?
With all due respect Nathan, Y4 and 998S are not keyways; Y4 is the 6-pin GMK to fit all G-family sectionals while 998S is the 5-pin version of the same masterkey. 998GB and 998GE are 6-pin G-family sectionals and Y4 and 998S should thus fit them both. As BBE explained, PL may also fit some G-family sectionals.Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanbonstein
Pete Schifferli
my bad, your right Pete,i was going thru a box of old parts for yale and got lost, (AGE) there was apl blank and i started playing with it,have the families but did not bother to look
thank you
PL and PR are valid .40 keyways originally used by Yale Banklock division and are/were restricted.
We have some old Diebold parts catalogs at work that show these keyways among others.
The PL section was definitely used on very old safe deposit box locks with peanut cylinders. I have one from around 1905-10 that uses this blank. The renter's keys are PL, the guard a corrugated keyway. They're for a .40 cylinder, marked "PL", and 5 pin in length. I have some marked "Yale Paracentric" with no keyway marking, but they are definitely PL as well. Perhaps you could rekey those padlocks to safe deposit keys if you can find some.