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Hello, I'm new to the forum and I bought an antique safe that came from Panama, Central America. I would like to know more about it like the maker/age of safe/value and anything you might be able to tell me. Also, thinking about restoration or leaving it alone. It is extremely heavy and has mahogany panels and shelves. Please advise.
I guess no takers on trying to identify? :(snooze): Any help or advise would be appreciated. THX
Hello Mat, in all fairness it was only yesterday when you posted this, some of the more experienced safe techs on your side of the pond don't get on as often as the 'hobbyist' members. Might have to be patient but usually someone is able to help out.
Yes sir, I understand. I forgot you guys were over there. I will be patient. :(handshake):
What is the brand name stamped on the front of the center of the dial? Looks like it may be Yale but is very hard to read in the picture and the rest of the name doesn't quite fit with Yale. What is the last patent date stamped in the center of the dial? That will at least indicate the earliest date it could have been made.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mat
Sorry I can't help more, but I never was much of a safe expert.
BBE.
It says Yale Lock MFG Co. Stamford Conn. Last Patent Nov. 8, 1880. Thank you
You have a Herring-Hall - Marvin safe. The lock model is a HE 3 wheel with a front wheel driver. There is also a relocker on the back cover of this lock. TJ
Thank you T Davidson, any idea on how old, value and what is a relocker? Please advise. Have a nice day!
The relocker in your case is a small spring loaded device which jams the lock bolt in the locked position. This is held in the unfired position by the presence of the back plate of the lock. So any attack on the lock, which disturbs the back plate, such as punching the spindle through will not unlock the lock, it will simply secure it in the locked position.
There are other types but I annoy people when I start rabbiting on too much on this subject.
Thank you Chubby! Great to know. I assume this safe was manufactured before 1900?
I have reservations that this safe was mfg by HHM.
I have not seen it all, but have been studying and recording dial patents for almost 40 years. From my findings your patent group would indicate one of the locks below;
Yale 024, 026, 028, OB/B, & Marvin Imperial
July 25 1871
Sept 2 1873
July 28 1874
Sept 7 1880
Nov 2 1880
Nov 2 1880
It's easier to ID a safe from an interior door picture showing the bolt work mechanism and combination lock.
DH
I guess i could remove the inside back panel but have reservations doing so. It has a round silver medalion that is attached by some screws (appears to be directly behind the dial) and not sure what that is and how to disassemble/re-assemble. Is it easy to do? Please advise.
Thanks
If the dial is original, it is unlikely to be a HHM. The HE Yale lock patent 672,911 is from 1901 and the Yale OB patent 533,753 in 1895. Early HHM safes did use a lot of different locks, but given that Yale had several other 1880's patents and HHM started in 1892?, I wouldn't expect to see that early a dial. So I am curious as well. Pulling the cover is not difficult and once we see what you have, getting it back together shouldn't be a problem.
I am planning to carefully remove the back panel over the next few days and take pictures of the inside for you. Is there anything i need to be aware of before doing this? Will anything come apart unexpectedly that would be trouble to reassemble? I just dont want to have $500 service call to fix anything. It's working perfectly now.
It is just effectively removing an inspection panel. Couldn't be simpler.
A blast of WD40 around the screws an hour before you try to budge them wouldn't hurt, but is by no means necessary.
My concern is not removing the inspection panel. It's the silver medalion that is attached to the panel with several screws. It appears to be directly behind the dial. Do i remove this first?
I have never seen anything like that. I would leave it in place and remove the back panel. I hope someone with more experience can help you.
The silver medallion may be the lock curb holding the wheelpack into the lock, hard to say without closer pictures, but if it is undo the screws on it and then try to rotate the medallion slightly to remove it, a bit like a bayonet light fitting. d
Ok, see pictures, got the panel off and medalion that holds the back of the dial. Really neat stuff, appears very old with square nuts and hammer marks in the metal. The back panel has TL letters? Any one ever seen one of these?
More pictures
So it was not too difficult!
3 way boltwork. Very nice. At risk of risking the ire of other members I would suggest that you put a separate relocker on the door. It would upgrade the unit neatly and they are very simple to fabricate.
No wasn't difficult. I felt like i was OO7 diffusing an explosive device when taking it apart :D:. What do you mean at risk of ire of other members and why a separate relocker? How would you upgrade the unit. I'm currently in the process of refinishing exterior and interior to make it a furniture piece for whatever. Any idea of Maker/Year/Value?
A separate relocker can be as simple as a small plunger or dropping bolt or arm which jams the mechanism in the closed position. You then run a bowden cable or similar to the lock and anchor it there. So the lock is holding the device in the open position. Any action which removes the lock releases that end and allows the device to drop into place to fasten the boltwork closed.
At that level they are extremely simple and very effective. I would incorporate a small spring to hold the device in place thereby frustrating a particular type of attack.
You could have it jamming the boltwork in any one of the 3 directions. Of course only you would know where it is located.
PM me if you want further details.
Thanks Chubby. Very useful information i will consider.
In answer to the question "Why a separate relocker?", if someone completely removes the lock, they are in! If you put one, or more, relockers, they most definitely are not.
If you use some sort of easily meltable link in it, such as using nylon cord, ot a plastic nut and bolt, you are also secured against attacks by heat tools.
i posted more pictures for you to see the inside.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug MacQueen
Sure wasn't expecting that setup. That's the first time I have seen the Yale OB used in reverse. For the most part the boltwork (as well as the rest of the safe) does look like it was made by an established safe company, but the lock mounting is a mystery. I am not seeing any other lock mounting holes, so it does look like it is the original lock. It is a left hand door and I don't think the OB came in left hand. It almost looks like the safe was already made when they realized the lock wouldn't work as it was a right handed lock, so they made it work anyway.
Huh. Interesting.... Yes, everthing to me seems very original and in great working order. Any idea of age?
Interesting. It's uncommon to see a left hand door cast iron era safe, and to top it off a Yale OBB lock working in conduction with LH bolt work. Never before.
I'm not sure who mfg. it, and could only guess, so I won't. I would classify this type of safe as what is called a "Skeleton Safe".
DH