Looking to try and identify the approximate age of this old Chubb 2 door Safe.

Firstly there is no serial number to be located on any of the locking pins or anywhere else on the safe.
Secondly there is also no weight impressions to be found on the top of either of the doors or anywhere else.
Don't worry we have looked long and hard for them.

Without removing the lock completely (riveted in) there are no serial numbers on it to be seen either.

Front doors are half inch thick steel.
Size is 48" high x 36 " wide x 36" deep with 2 lockable draws.
The green paint seems to be the original colour, just oxidised and faded.

This by all accounts from my research on this forum is an early Chubb Fireproof Safe made between 1839 and 1866 at 57 St Pauls Churchyard, London at per the 2 front plaques.

We can find no evidence of tampering since original.
Have attached pictures for viewing.
Any help is greatly appreciated.

The lock looks a good one with heavy brass case, detector and curtain so it's worth a look on the top of the lock salvage (hidden by boltwork)for a possible serial number- you might be lucky. For the sake of 2 mins to remove the split cotter pin and slide the boltwork out you never know it's more likely to be there than stamped hidden on the back of the case. Without any numbers to work on I can't see much happening to pinpoint a date anymore accurately than you have tbh.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Huw Eastwood

The lock looks a good one with heavy brass case, detector and curtain so it's worth a look on the top of the lock salvage (hidden by boltwork)for a possible serial number- you might be lucky. For the sake of 2 mins to remove the split cotter pin and slide the boltwork out you never know it's more likely to be there than stamped hidden on the back of the case. Without any numbers to work on I can't see much happening to pinpoint a date anymore accurately than you have tbh.

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Bobneiht,

There is nothing about this safe to suggest that it was made by Chubb. In fact it's at the opposite end of the scale.

The possibilities are that as Chubb didn't actually manufacture safes until about the 1840's it was made by another safe maker such as Tann or Leadbetter in England and to which the Chubb Locks and nameplates were attached.

Another and more likely possibility is that it was made in Australia before Chubb actually established themselves in 1896 by a company approved by Chubb to apply their insignia and locks.

I'm sorry if this is less than helpful.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Huw Eastwood

The lock looks a good one with heavy brass case, detector and curtain so it's worth a look on the top of the lock salvage (hidden by boltwork)for a possible serial number- you might be lucky. For the sake of 2 mins to remove the split cotter pin and slide the boltwork out you never know it's more likely to be there than stamped hidden on the back of the case. Without any numbers to work on I can't see much happening to pinpoint a date anymore accurately than you have tbh.

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Thanks for your suggestion Huw will try that and let you guys know if I find anything.

Bob

Quote:

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Originally Posted by safeman

Bobneiht,

There is nothing about this safe to suggest that it was made by Chubb. In fact it's at the opposite end of the scale.

The possibilities are that as Chubb didn't actually manufacture safes until about the 1840's it was made by another safe maker such as Tann or Leadbetter in England and to which the Chubb Locks and nameplates were attached.

Another and more likely possibility is that it was made in Australia before Chubb actually established themselves in 1896 by a company approved by Chubb to apply their insignia and locks.

I'm sorry if this is less than helpful.

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Thanks for those thoughts Safeman. Your comments are helpful. I had wondered myself why there might be no serial numbers or weight stamped on this safe and what you suggest could possibly be correct that the safe was made here in Aussie prior to Chubb coming here in 1896 by another company with rights to use their insignia and locks. Great thoughts, thanks for your imput.

Bob

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Huw Eastwood

The lock looks a good one with heavy brass case, detector and curtain so it's worth a look on the top of the lock salvage (hidden by boltwork)for a possible serial number- you might be lucky. For the sake of 2 mins to remove the split cotter pin and slide the boltwork out you never know it's more likely to be there than stamped hidden on the back of the case. Without any numbers to work on I can't see much happening to pinpoint a date anymore accurately than you have tbh.

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Finally got to the top of the lock today. Pictures are as good as I could get as can't get a direct pic from above as the lock is still riveted in the door ......but it has Chubb Patent + Emblem plus the Churchyard address + Chubb & Son.

Only 3 numbers spread apart across the top. 4 1 8 as well as a set of very small capital letters which read AJESTY.

Pic attached

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bobneiht

Finally got to the top of the lock today. Pictures are as good as I could get as can't get a direct pic from above as the lock is still riveted in the door ......but it has Chubb Patent + Emblem plus the Churchyard address + Chubb & Son.

Only 3 numbers spread apart across the top. 4 1 8 as well as a set of very small capital letters which read AJESTY.

Pic attached

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Does anyone have any info or thoughts on this particular lock at all?
I have looked at all the pics of Chubb locks on the Chubb Archive site under Lock Registers and can't seem to find a match.

Thanks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bobneiht

Does anyone have any info or thoughts on this particular lock at all?
I have looked at all the pics of Chubb locks on the Chubb Archive site under Lock Registers and can't seem to find a match.

Thanks

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I have little expertise in the field of locks but from what your photographs shows I will offer my thoughts.
This lock appears to have been made as a cupboard or drawer lock by having two possible key entry points horizontal or vertical. It would appear to have been made around the time that Chubb discontinued the use of the Detector although the lock is certainly constructed with all the appropriate facilities for such having two talons to permit the overshoot of the bolt to release the Detector and also having gaps in the front of the levers for this overthrow to take place.
Their alternative to the Detector was the use of false notches on the levers as seen on your lock plus the barrel and curtain which is also on your lock. This latter improvement to prevent picking was patented in 1852 so it looks like *AJESTY is prefixed by Her not His.