Hello,
looking for some picktures of the Mercy lock how has some info for me.
Thanks Jord:(nerd):
Printable View
Hello,
looking for some picktures of the Mercy lock how has some info for me.
Thanks Jord:(nerd):
I suspect your meant the ' Mersey ' lock. They were not made by Chubb. The name of the company escapes me for the present but no doubt someone else will recall.
Anyway - what do you want to know ?
I did a Google Images search for "mersey lock" (without the quotes) and came up with a nice article and pictures:
http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=47771
Attachment 10376Attachment 10377Attachment 10378
I have at least 2 but they both have the black cover/case on, I haven't worked out how to remove it to get to the workings.
:(
It usually requires the action of the key to remove the cover.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcade Al
Without a key one must either pick the lock (not easy) or damage the plastic cover.
The article goes into this a little, the case cannot be removed unless the lock is open.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcade Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldlock
Yep I have the keys, I just had a couple of difficult/ sticky ones for some reason - I managed to wiggle the cover of one of them earlier today.Quote:
Originally Posted by wylk
Wiggle the cover OFF, that should read!Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcade Al
I agree just jiggle a bit with it and you will get it open I am sure.
I have one of those locks. I would be happy to make a cut away. Anyone one interested?
Hey Doug,
Sure go ahead! Looking forward to see pictures of your cutaway here :o:
I will start right now, Can't promise I wont pass out first though.
Hindsight is not always 20-20 Doug MacQueen
I look forward to seeing a cutaway, I can't recall ever seeing one of these done before...
:(y):
I've got one I cut and shaped the cover to see the stumps and lever gatings somewhere but haven't come across it in years. I'll have a look for it when I can :(nod):
The Mersey is a lock I spent a lot of time with over the years. Al mentioned his lock having sticky keys- they were common for grease/lube to work in from the locking mechs of 5' and 6' security cabinets. A strip-down and clean up often gets them working like new. Even ones removed off a plain locking bar will benefit from a good clean.
The older WLN 10 lever versions are always smoother than the later 14 levers. The first pic that wylk posted perfectly shows the common problem when Merseys were fitted to locking bars or styles. User opens the lock, leaves the key in, stands the bar up against a wall, and then it slides over or gets knocked and falls flat on the floor, punching the key into the lock and denting the back cover. I've had a few classics where the key actually broke through the back- the cover is quite thin at that point because of the recess for the plastic curtain.
They made countless changes to the design over the years- some are so minor they pretty much go unnoticed. I think my favourite was one of the early 10 levers which had a spiral moulded into the nylon curtain- this drove a small steel pin with an angled groove on it. It drove the pin in and out of a small hole in the back-plate- a bit like a miniature live relocker. It prevented movement of the bolt when locked, although it's effect was questionable alongside the main anti-picking features they had. Oddly, this version always seems to be one of the smoothest working- despite the fiddly little spiral and moving pin it never gave any real trouble and the keys were always smooth when lifting the levers to their final height- something the later 14 lever versions always suffered on- the arc of the key makes for an extreme point of contact at the final fraction of lift- they always seemed to have a 'catchy' feel to them even when new.
Something which might surprise you is the number of component parts to a 14-lever Mersey- the bolt is made up of several laminations and has anti-X-ray and anti-drill layers- when you totally strip one down to individual components there's about 48 parts from what I remember :(nerd):
Here you go Adrian. Not quite finished. Doug
I have only seen this lock once Max and that was with my friend who is in the safe business as far as I can remember. I also believe that the plastic back cover makes it vulnerable to such malfunctions as you stated out.
The detail with the bolt is very interesting, I will pay attention to detail when I get my hands on one someday :o:
Doug, that cutaway looks beautiful!
Really nice work my friend! :)-:
Adrian
It's looking very promising at the moment.
Please could a Mod or Admin change the title of the thread so that it correctly says "Mersey" instead of mercy? Many thanks.
:(y):
As Milner (or was it Chatwood-Milner) opted for punning names, such as the "Manifoil", perhaps they reckoned that "Mersea"-mercy! would be what a polite picker would utter when confronted with one, unless it was first specified for use in that area. Any ideas?
Also, was it ever patented, and, if so, would the numbers be known.
I have failed to locate any.
Thanks,
Martin.
The Mersey was named after the river it would seem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprockets
Thanks, Tom, I suppose that they had to acknowledge the river that made Liverpool great! Any idea if the lock was patented?
Thanks,Martin.
They named another lock Medway but I don’t think they patented anything because that would be a bit too easy for the Russians and Chinese to copy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprockets
Thanks again, another M-----named lock, "Medway" of which I had not heard! Amazingly there is a church, St Peter and St Paul, at Aylesford, overlooking the Medway, which has inside an ancient monument dedicated to the local Milner family! Did they know about that at Liverpool?
Was the Medway a precursor to the Mersea, or a simpler form? Are there any other locks in the "M"series! They escape mention in the "High-Security Mechanical Locks" tome!
Many thanks,
Martin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Gordon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprockets
Hello again Martin, basically they used river names for the locks and counties/county town names for the majority of the doors.
The Medway was a huge rim deadlock (over 10 kilos) with integrated glass/relocker locked by a single Manifoil, which could be fitted to different spec doors depending on risk and application.
There was also a lower grade heavy rim deadlock called the Avon -key locking only, and most commonly locked by Bramah MDX series deadlocks. Avon’s had loads of integrated cobalarc protection but no glass.
The range of doors started with the lightweight Cambridge for low risk applications, then the mid range Oxford and the Essex, which had independent dual locking Manifoils aimed mostly at overseas use like foreign Embassies.
The very highest grade of all was simply ‘Grade 1A’ and not given a county or town name. These were bankers/treasury grade doors of similar design and construction to the free standing safes (of the same grade) -for visual comparison similar to a 4 inch branch bank strongroom door in appearance, ie; 4 inch protective slab + roughly 4 inch boltcase, so approx 7 1/2 or 8 inches thick overall. Grade 1As were available key or combo locking but only key locking was accepted for highest risks.
Thanks,Huw,
Sorry about delay, but I have had diversions! It is a pity Chatwood did not use Welsh near-neigbouring counties like Denbighshire or Flintshire-that last summons up images of steely confidence! They had the cheek, too, of using the non-county moniker of "Merlin", rather than a local county name!
Wishing you all the best that can be achieved during Herr Omicron's trampling over our festivities-perhaps it should be a movable feast for later!
I've always understood the word Merlin is simply a rearangement of Milner the original maker of the the lock before the company merged with Chatwood.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprockets
Who made the mersey locks ? I know there are 10 lever and 14 lever versions, a plastic key version , but who made them ?? Willenhall ?? I thought Lowe and Fletcher did as well.
What was the story with the plastic and metal laminated keys, were they just early versions?
Hiya Gary that's pretty much it, the very first versions had the plastic bits injection molded on steel shafts and when they realised how bad an idea that was, they changed to all steel with the built-up laminated bits. After that they were cast one-piece and machined, still with a few different variations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Stephenson
From memory the initial idea was all down to a combination of cost and the fact plastics were still booming in the early 1970s so thinking was a cutting edge answer to production. As you know the external case covers and the curtains were also injected plastic so presumably easy for the same company to produce them all.
I did government and ministry work for a long time and somewhere in storage I've got a folder of old 1970s typewritten papers which covered the ministry of works teams behind the development of the locks to the different types of security containers and safes.
I recall there being a link between the Mersey lock and the primary/secondary boltwork design of the grade 1A safes and SRD's, think it might have been the same chap in MoW that designed them.
cheers Huw, I would be interested in seeing that info if you ever dig it out, do you know which company refurbed the Merseys? was it MD or someone else?
Gary
Gary, I don't have much knowledge on the subject except that many years ago Tim Taylor came up to my place in Aberdeen for a holiday break. He wanted to pick up old safe information and took lots of my stuff to be photocopied.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Stephenson
The Mersey lock came up in conversation of which I told him I knew nothing whatsoever. Next thing was a sample lock in the post. I had a feeling that he was involved with the lock in some way. Maybe that's garbage. Maybe not.
John.
hiya John, yes I know Tim, he made decoder tools / picks for the Merseys. They weren't the first ones made as far as I know, and not sure if Tim sold them to safe engineers or just government.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Stephenson
Gary, since you must already have everything already published I feel the attached will be a waste of time but here goes anyway.
Attachment 23569Attachment 23570Attachment 23571Attachment 23572
Cheers John, yes I have that catalogue, Tim made some lovely stuff.