Help with Two John Tann Safes please.

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18-03-18, 11:04 AM
Mark1

Help with Two John Tann Safes please.

Hello all, This is my first post so please be gentle with me! I recently acquired three safes for a demolition site for what I think a reasonable price.

I would please like some/any information about these safes. The first one is a large John Tann two door Safe, there are some numbers stamped on the top of the primary door which are 11.1.0. also on the top 'lever' that locks the safe the following numbers are stamped into it 21567.
Sadly all the brass work has been removed by some kind soul! A while ago I might add as rust has formed. From memory the Safe is 29 inches high 4 feet wide and two feet deep.

I have tried to find some pictures on the internet of similar Safes to get an idea of what is missing but so far nothing has come to light!

The second Safe is a single door John Tann Safe, numbers stamped on top of the door are 6.0.24 and the numbers stamped on the top locking lever are 18331. Hopefully someone can help me. Also hopefully I will be able to post some pictures soon.

Kind regards Mark1

P.s The third Safe is a Milners but I'll worry about that one later.
18-03-18, 04:23 PM
safeman

Tann Safes.

[QUOTE=Mark1;28973]Hello all, This is my first post so please be gentle with me! I recently acquired three safes for a demolition site for what I think a reasonable price.

Hopefully someone can help me. Also hopefully I will be able to post some pictures soon.

Kind regards Mark1

Mark, the Tann Double Door with a weight of 11 cwts,1 qr. (570 kg) and number 21567 was made in 1899.
The safe 18331 with a weight of 6 cwts, 0 qrs, 24 lbs. (315 kg) was made in 1893.

Photographs showing the outside and inside of the door should enable identification of quality. There should be some form of identification plates on the back of the door.
The same applies to the Milner where the serial and lock numbers are stamped into the front edge of the body above the door.
18-03-18, 05:26 PM
Mark1

Thank you Safeman

[QUOTE=safeman;28974]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark1

Hello all, This is my first post so please be gentle with me! I recently acquired three safes for a demolition site for what I think a reasonable price.

Hopefully someone can help me. Also hopefully I will be able to post some pictures soon.

Kind regards Mark1

Mark, the Tann Double Door with a weight of 11 cwts,1 qr. (570 kg) and number 21567 was made in 1899.
The safe 18331 with a weight of 6 cwts, 0 qrs, 24 lbs. (315 kg) was made in 1893.

Photographs showing the outside and inside of the door should enable identification of quality. There should be some form of identification plates on the back of the door.
The same applies to the Milner where the serial and lock numbers are stamped into the front edge of the body above the door.

Hello Safeman, Many,Many thanks for your help/information. Do you know of any other of the two door Safes? Are they a common Safe? I would like to see how it should look. Kindest regards and once again thank you very much.
18-03-18, 05:49 PM
safeman

[QUOTE=Mark1;28977]

Quote:

Originally Posted by safeman

Hello Safeman, Many,Many thanks for your help/information. Do you know of any other of the two door Safes? Are they a common Safe? I would like to see how it should look. Kindest regards and once again thank you very much.

Can't tell you anything until I see some good pictures.
18-03-18, 09:07 PM
Mark1

Pictures

[QUOTE=safeman;28978]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark1

Can't tell you anything until I see some good pictures.

Sorry email not working at the moment will upload pictures asap
19-03-18, 09:22 PM
Mark1

6 Attachment(s)

[QUOTE=safeman;28978]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark1

Can't tell you anything until I see some good pictures.

Good Evening, Hopefully I enclose some pictures of my Two Door John Tann Safe
19-03-18, 09:39 PM
Mark1

1 Attachment(s)

Picture of my John Tann 'Safe two'

[QUOTE=safeman;28978]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark1

Can't tell you anything until I see some good pictures.

Sorry no 'good' pictures of exterior of this Safe at present
20-03-18, 12:21 AM
Gary Stephenson

2 Attachment(s)

Don't know if the key register details for those numbers are of any use;
20-03-18, 05:59 AM
Mark1

Thanks Gary

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Stephenson

Don't know if the key register details for those numbers are of any use;

Hello, Yes, Thank you Gary. Any information about these Safes is all gratefully received. Kind regards Mark
20-03-18, 03:41 PM
safeman

1 Attachment(s)

[QUOTE=Mark1;28977]

Quote:

Originally Posted by safeman

Hello Safeman, Many,Many thanks for your help/information. Do you know of any other of the two door Safes? Are they a common Safe? I would like to see how it should look. Kindest regards and once again thank you very much.

The Tann List 2 as with all the other grades were offered in a number of sizes including double-doored versions. They were not uncommon.

Your safe No.21567 was one of the first Tann safes to be known as the No.2 Bent Body. Prior to this date safes had been of a square body construction made up of separate sheets of metal rivetted over an angle iron frame. In this style the four sides comprise a singe sheet bent at the four corners and the back plate attached separately. This gives less opportunity for splitting the body apart.
Attachment 19704
20-03-18, 08:12 PM
Mark1

Many thanks Safeman.

[QUOTE=safeman;29011]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark1

The Tann List 2 as with all the other grades were offered in a number of sizes including double-doored versions. They were not uncommon.

Your safe No.21567 was one of the first Tann safes to be known as the No.2 Bent Body. Prior to this date safes had been of a square body construction made up of separate sheets of metal rivetted over an angle iron frame. In this style the four sides comprise a singe sheet bent at the four corners and the back plate attached separately. This gives less opportunity for splitting the body apart.
Attachment 19704

Thanks for all of that information Safeman. Would just like to see one with its plates and levers/handles/ knobs? in place, as if possible I would like to replace them. It's a lovely Safe just a shame it's been abused by people who don't have any regard for anything. Thanks again.
20-03-18, 08:38 PM
safeman

2 Attachment(s)

[QUOTE=Mark1;29013]

Quote:

Originally Posted by safeman

Thanks for all of that information Safeman. Would just like to see one with its plates and levers/handles/ knobs? in place, as if possible I would like to replace them. It's a lovely Safe just a shame it's been abused by people who don't have any regard for anything. Thanks again.

These photographs are from the same period and show the door furniture used at the time.
The large double door safe is a List 4 which should be fairly close in terms of external fittings although without nameplates.

Attachment 19705 Attachment 19706
20-03-18, 09:10 PM
Mark1

Many thanks again Safeman.

[QUOTE=safeman;29014]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark1

These photographs are from the same period and show the door furniture used at the time.
The large double door safe is a List 4 which should be fairly close in terms of external fittings although without nameplates.

Attachment 19705 Attachment 19706

Thanks, There's some nice ones there.
21-03-18, 10:03 AM
safeman

1 Attachment(s)

[QUOTE=Mark1;29013]

Quote:

Originally Posted by safeman

Thanks for all of that information Safeman. Would just like to see one with its plates and levers/handles/ knobs? in place, as if possible I would like to replace them. It's a lovely Safe just a shame it's been abused by people who don't have any regard for anything. Thanks again.

Here's closer illustration showing the door furniture in more detail. Although this dates from the 1920's the brasswork will most likely be identical.

Ebay sometimes come up with these items.

Attachment 19709
21-03-18, 06:36 PM
Chubby

The old days when Tann could boast that their safes had never been compromised! That is quite a claim.
21-03-18, 08:22 PM
Mark1

Many thanks Safeman.

[QUOTE=safeman;29019]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark1

Here's closer illustration showing the door furniture in more detail. Although this dates from the 1920's the brasswork will most likely be identical.

Ebay sometimes come up with these items.

Attachment 19709

Thanks for all your help, I'll keep an eye out. You never know!
21-03-18, 08:24 PM
Mark1

Thanks Chubby

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chubby

The old days when Tann could boast that their safes had never been compromised! That is quite a claim.

Indeed yes and thanks.
22-03-18, 01:50 PM
Mark1

4 Attachment(s)

Update on my Two Door John Tann Safe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark1

Indeed yes and thanks.

I have just unloaded my Two Door Safe off of my trailer on my own with just a steel plate some blocks of wood and some lengths of one inch water pipe.

I really enjoyed this far better than working! I have enclosed some pictures of the 'operation'

In the last picture I've only got about eighty feet to go to get it to my Garage door!
22-03-18, 03:43 PM
Chubby

Yes, moving a mid weight safe, such as your double door one, is a breeze, especially when it is so wide. I used to enjoy shifting them too. It is amazing what can be done once the unit is on rollers.

Now comes the fun of renovating them.
22-03-18, 04:30 PM
Mark1

Thanks Chubby

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chubby

Yes, moving a mid weight safe, such as your double door one, is a breeze, especially when it is so wide. I used to enjoy shifting them too. It is amazing what can be done once the unit is on rollers.

Now comes the fun of renovating them.

Yeah they're going in my Garage, Hope to get them looking nice. Shame all the bits were stolen/broken..... I will post some numbers from the Milners Safe I have sometime today hopefully. Do I need to start a new 'thread'? 'Post' for that?
22-03-18, 04:37 PM
Chubby

It is annoying when somebody removes a few pence worth of brass and thus ruin a safe.
22-03-18, 05:52 PM
Mark1

2 Attachment(s)

Some belated pictures of my small John Tann Safe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark1

Yeah they're going in my Garage, Hope to get them looking nice. Shame all the bits were stolen/broken..... I will post some numbers from the Milners Safe I have sometime today hopefully. Do I need to start a new 'thread'? 'Post' for that?

Just a few (not brilliant) pictures of my small John Tann Safe if anyone's interested
22-03-18, 05:53 PM
Mark1

Annoying

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chubby

It is annoying when somebody removes a few pence worth of brass and thus ruin a safe.

Annoying to say the very least!!!
22-03-18, 06:02 PM
Chubby

It used to annoy me when alarm fitters, in the old days, fitting the alarmed escutcheons would remove the name plate to use one of the screw holes, because they were too lazy to drill and tap a hole of their own.
22-03-18, 06:06 PM
Mark1

Lazyness

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chubby

It used to annoy me when alarm fitters, in the old days, fitting the alarmed escutcheons would remove the name plate to use one of the screw holes, because they were too lazy to drill and tap a hole of their own.

Yes as I said in one of my previous posts these people have no regard for anything and just think of themselves and their pocket......
22-03-18, 08:40 PM
safeman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark1

Just a few (not brilliant) pictures of my small John Tann Safe if anyone's interested

As you say Mark, your pictures are difficult to interpret but despite that your Tann is a List 2a which was the most produced Tann safe having been in production from 1869 to 1900.
It was known in the factory as the MM quality referring to the fact that it was machine made.
This refers to the fact that the body was bent from a single plate of wrought iron in a horizontal plane leaving no weak joints on the corners. Wrought iron like wood has a grain and an only be bent in one direction without fracturing.
The Milner safe is probably a List 2 from about 1920. At least not all the furniture is gone.
22-03-18, 10:17 PM
Mark1

Thank you Safeman

Quote:

Originally Posted by safeman

As you say Mark, your pictures are difficult to interpret but despite that your Tann is a List 2a which was the most produced Tann safe having been in production from 1869 to 1900.
It was known in the factory as the MM quality referring to the fact that it was machine made.
This refers to the fact that the body was bent from a single plate of wrought iron in a horizontal plane leaving no weak joints on the corners. Wrought iron like wood has a grain and an only be bent in one direction without fracturing.
The Milner safe is probably a List 2 from about 1920. At least not all the furniture is gone.

Thanks very much for the information Safeman

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