Forest Service Lock by Yale

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23-09-17, 05:18 PM
wvanauken

3 Attachment(s)

Forest Service Lock by Yale

I have a Yale Forest Service lock that looks to be quite old. I states on one side of the lock "Made For" and then in big circular letters "Forest Service" with an embossed pine tree and the letters U and S on either side of the tree. See attached pics. It is a beauty. The key doesn't look like the original. If any of you have any info on this i.e. age, worth, history, etc., I would greatly appreciate your input. Thank you.

Attachment 18586 Attachment 18587 Attachment 18588
23-09-17, 06:06 PM
YALE7750

Pre-1950's pine tree lock

That's the pine tree logo USFS lock that dates to before the 1950's if I'm not mistaken. In decent shape they sell for quite a bit of money, especially with original patina & key. I see them on eBay from time to time. Yours may have the original key, it might just be badly worn down, AFAIK all of them are keyed alike to the code 26525 on a restricted keyway, 997PA I think. Same keyway as Ordnance Dept USA locks of the same type. There are others on this forum that know much more than I about these locks & can probably provide much more detail on their history.

Later USFS locks didn't have the cool logo, just YALE on both sides & the letters USFS stamped into the lock by hand. They aren't nearly as valuable or desirable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wvanauken

I have a Yale Forest Service lock that looks to be quite old. I states on one side of the lock "Made For" and then in big circular letters "Forest Service" with an embossed pine tree and the letters U and S on either side of the tree. See attached pics. It is a beauty. The key doesn't look like the original. If any of you have any info on this i.e. age, worth, history, etc., I would greatly appreciate your input. Thank you.Attachment 18586 Attachment 18587 Attachment 18588
24-09-17, 01:49 AM
Pschiffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by YALE7750

That's the pine tree logo USFS lock that dates to before the 1950's if I'm not mistaken. In decent shape they sell for quite a bit of money, especially with original patina & key. I see them on eBay from time to time. Yours may have the original key, it might just be badly worn down, AFAIK all of them are keyed alike to the code 26525 on a restricted keyway, 997PA I think. Same keyway as Ordnance Dept USA locks of the same type. There are others on this forum that know much more than I about these locks & can probably provide much more detail on their history.
Later USFS locks didn't have the cool logo, just YALE on both sides & the letters USFS stamped into the lock by hand. They aren't nearly as valuable or desirable.

You got most of it correct but the actual keyway is Yale RN8F1L restricted. The Ilco 997PA is similar and may work if the keyway is well worn, it is also 6-pin and would need to be shortened to 5-pin. I'm told that keyway may have also used by some railroads and utilities as well.

Pete Schifferli
27-09-17, 05:46 PM
jeffmoss26

Pete - I have some original Yale F1L blanks and Ilco 997PA, they all fit a variety of USFS and railroad locks. Some 5 pin and some 6.
11-10-17, 04:12 PM
wvanauken

2 Attachment(s)

Key

Thank you all. I found a lock and key for sale on ebay. I'm really interested in the key as it looks to be original and looks really cool. Here is the pic. Any info, ideas, or thoughts would be appreciated. It is being sold with the lock, but as you know I already have the lock with chain where the one on ebay does not have the chain and pin attachmentAttachment 18715 Attachment 18716. Bill
13-10-17, 04:56 AM
YALE7750

Key looks pre-1905

I think the key is older than the lock in that listing; I remember reading an old pamphlet printed by Yale & Towne that mentioned the replacement of the old Y&T logo on keys & cylinders with the all-uppercase YALE logo in a square border being sometime around 1904. Various other lock makers copied the logo in a border & ended up being sued by Yale & Towne for trademark infringement. Before that, keys had the Y&T logo and "Yale Paracentric" like the one in the picture. The earliest paracentric keys had the trefoil bow, same as the old "Yale corrugated" versions.
The USFS was established in 1905, which would make that one of the earliest examples of the USFS padlock key. Definitely a cool find.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wvanauken

Thank you all. I found a lock and key for sale on ebay. I'm really interested in the key as it looks to be original and looks really cool. Here is the pic. Any info, ideas, or thoughts would be appreciated. It is being sold with the lock, but as you know I already have the lock with chain where the one on ebay does not have the chain and pin attachmentAttachment 18715 Attachment 18716. Bill
14-10-17, 12:19 AM
Pschiffe

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by YALE7750

I think the key is older than the lock in that listing; I remember reading an old pamphlet printed by Yale & Towne that mentioned the replacement of the old Y&T logo on keys & cylinders with the all-uppercase YALE logo in a square border being sometime around 1904. Various other lock makers copied the logo in a border & ended up being sued by Yale & Towne for trademark infringement. Before that, keys had the Y&T logo and "Yale Paracentric" like the one in the picture. The earliest paracentric keys had the trefoil bow, same as the old "Yale corrugated" versions.
The USFS was established in 1905, which would make that one of the earliest examples of the USFS padlock key. Definitely a cool find.

Here is an enlarged image of the Yale No. 8 key blank taken from the Supplee Hardware Company catalog page 86 ca. 1902 that has been cited here previously, see thumbnail attached. I was interested in the patent dates incised on the key blade: Nov. 2, 1892, July 28, 1892 and Aug. 11, 1891, with some diligence I did find two:
1. July 28, 1892, U.S. Patent 456,917
2. Aug. 11, 1892, U.S. Patent 457,753
Both the above were issued to Warren H. Taylor and assigned to Yale & Towne Mfg. Co. I was unable to find anything whatever on the Nov. 2, 1892 patent. Anybody out there that can find this one?

Pete Schifferli
14-10-17, 02:27 AM
BBE
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pschiffe

Here is an enlarged image of the Yale No. 8 key blank taken from the Supplee Hardware Company catalog page 86 ca. 1902 that has been cited here previously, see thumbnail attached. I was interested in the patent dates incised on the key blade: Nov. 2, 1892, July 28, 1892 and Aug. 11, 1891, with some diligence I did find two:

July 28, 1892, U.S. Patent 456,917
Aug. 11, 1892, U.S. Patent 457,753

Both the above were issued to Warren H. Taylor and assigned to Yale & Towne Mfg. Co. I was unable to find anything whatever on the Nov. 2, 1892 patent. Anybody out there that can find this one?

Pete Schifferli
I haven't time to look now, but I think you misread the date on that key, it is Nov. 2, 1891.
BBE.
14-10-17, 03:00 AM
BBE

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBE

I haven't time to look now, but I think you misread the date on that key, it is Nov. 2, 1891.
BBE.

OK, did a quick look and neither 11/2/1891 nor 11/2/1892 was a Tuesday, so both are invalid.
BBE.
14-10-17, 04:08 AM
Pschiffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBE

I haven't time to look now, but I think you misread the date on that key, it is Nov. 2, 1891.
BBE.

Right you are, that was a typo; it is indeed Nov. 2, 1891, sorry for the confusion!

Pete
14-10-17, 04:38 AM
Pschiffe

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wvanauken

Thank you all. I found a lock and key for sale on ebay. I'm really interested in the key as it looks to be original and looks really cool. Here is the pic. Any info, ideas, or thoughts would be appreciated. It is being sold with the lock, but as you know I already have the lock with chain where the one on ebay does not have the chain and pin attachmentAttachment 18715 Attachment 18716. Bill

Here is an image of vintage Yale 8 cut keys found on eBay, see thumbnail attached; note that the finger side is identical to the Forest Service key originally posted by wvanauken on October 11th.

Pete Schifferli
14-10-17, 04:19 PM
Pschiffe

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pschiffe

Here is an image of vintage Yale 8 cut keys found on eBay, see thumbnail attached; note that the finger side is identical to the Forest Service key originally posted by wvanauken on October 11th.
Pete Schifferli

I found the design patent issued to Henry R. Towne Dec. 13, 1898, #USD29786 S; for that early key bow which I believe dates the key with a fair degree of certainty, see thumbnail attached.

Pete Schifferli
14-10-17, 04:48 PM
Pschiffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBE

OK, did a quick look and neither 11/2/1891 nor 11/2/1892 was a Tuesday, so both are invalid.
BBE.

Billy, perhaps that century old error should have been Nov. 2, 1880? I found that date on other goods patented by Yale & Towne in that era. See US Patent 234,089 issued to Warren H. Taylor "Apparatus for slotting metal".

Every major lock company had at least one outstanding inventor of locks and builders' hardware. In the case of Yale & Towne, the man was Warren H. Taylor. Taylor entered the employ of the Yale Lock Shop of Shelburne Falls, Massachusetts in 1869. At the time of his death in 1914, he was superintendent of the bank lock department. He was also one of the largest stockholders of the company.*

*from Locks and Lockmakers of America, rev. 3rd edition, (c) 1976, 1997 by the late Thomas F. Hennessy, pg. 70

Pete Schifferli
15-10-17, 04:34 AM
BBE

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pschiffe

Billy, perhaps that century old error should have been Nov. 2, 1880? I found that date on other goods patented by Yale & Towne in that era. See US Patent 234,089 issued to Warren H. Taylor "Apparatus for slotting metal".

Every major lock company had at least one outstanding inventor of locks and builders' hardware. In the case of Yale & Towne, the man was Warren H. Taylor. Taylor entered the employ of the Yale Lock Shop of Shelburne Falls, Massachusetts in 1869. At the time of his death in 1914, he was superintendent of the bank lock department. He was also one of the largest stockholders of the company.*

*from Locks and Lockmakers of America, rev. 3rd edition, (c) 1976, 1997 by the late Thomas F. Hennessy, pg. 70

Pete Schifferli

Nice detective work Pete. I think you may be right.
BBE.