Key made for a 4 Johnson "Cleveland" Farebox??

I obtained a Johnson "Cleveland" Farebox that did not have the key with it. Is it possible to have a key made for a Chicago 4 Way Lock? Anyone familiar with this that can assist me? I would like to keep everything original on this fare box!

I have taken this lock to two different places and neither of them were able to make a key for it. The second party I took this too has been working on it for some time now and it seems that he has loves the challenge! Great guy to deal with but feel bad that he has spent so much time on it!

The issue appears to be that this is not a true "crucifixion" key. If you look at the two slots at the top of the keyhole they're longer then the bottom ones. Anyone have any experience in making keys for these?
http://www.antique-locks.com/images/.../zoHahDt-1.jpg

I have two of these, one for the farebox and then there is one on the inside "cashbox". I am assuming the locks are two different keys.

Even if someone has this lock and key for sale I would be interested!

Please email me and thanks!

If is open could please take picture of inside. Could give some idea of what ir look like. Those kind of lock are hard to work on...Timothy. .

At one time I had around a dozen of these locks from SF Trolley fareboxes. Half were made similar to desk locks an the other half live cam locks. I did mange to make a key for each type and luckily each type was KA. The process required destruction of one lock of each type.

I found them impossible for me to pick. If your locksmith is successful he ha my admiration.
BBE.

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Originally Posted by Timothy

If is open could please take picture of inside. Could give some idea of what ir look like. Those kind of lock are hard to work on...Timothy. .

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Timothy, appreciate the post. I do not have the lock in front of me as it's still with the gentleman that is attempting to make a key for me. I asked him if he would take a picture and send it to me. Not sure if he has the capability or not but if he does I will post it here. Kills me as I know I took two pictures, one of the front and one of the back, before I sent the lock out. I found the front one (below) but must have deleted the one of the back!

http://www.antique-locks.com/images/...loxVr6xl-1.jpg

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Originally Posted by BBE

At one time I had around a dozen of these locks from SF Trolley fareboxes. Half were made similar to desk locks an the other half live cam locks. I did mange to make a key for each type and luckily each type was KA. The process required destruction of one lock of each type.

I found them impossible for me to pick. If your locksmith is successful he ha my admiration.
BBE.

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To this guy's credit he has was able to pick the lock and the lock is now in the unlocked position, however he has not been successful in being able to make a key for it. He said he has gone through numerous blanks all to no avail! I keep telling him if he is tire of working on it to send it back and he advises me "it's about the challenge at this point"!

http://www.antique-locks.com/images/...zYIljpg1-1.jpg
http://www.antique-locks.com/images/...sJ8lpng1-1.jpg

umping to see if anyone has any experience with these locks!

So is the problem getting key blanks or figuring the actual key cuts? If the lock has been picked to the open position, it looks like one could remove the screw that holds the tang on the back and possably remove the lock core. If the core will come out, one should be able to measure the pins hights and spacings and transfer those dimensions to a key blank.

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Originally Posted by oldbiscuit

So is the problem getting key blanks or figuring the actual key cuts? If the lock has been picked to the open position, it looks like one could remove the screw that holds the tang on the back and possably remove the lock core. If the core will come out, one should be able to measure the pins hights and spacings and transfer those dimensions to a key blank.

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Not quite. It is first of all a lever tumbler lock and there are eight of them in it. When removing the plug it is highly likely that one or more of those lever tumblers will jump to the ground. I have a number of different styles of Cleveland 4-Way lock and have taken a picture of a few.

From 12 o'clock, a bolt lock that locks both sides of a farebox door, what the inside back of the bolt type looks like, cam type lock, desk or cabinet type lock, a typical plug and one of the lever tumblers and two keys in the middle.

I have never made the keys to this batch ad all the ones that I made keys for are gone. Naturally they also made padlocks. I have seen two styles, a large oval body and a rectangular body. Both bodies are typically bronze.
BBE.

I don't think going to find the original key blank for it. As I was looking into some key catalog of finding something the may work as may end up have to file it to make it work. In Borkey key catalog go to page 43 and 44 maybe can be it or go to 108 Cruciform key blank. Like I said may have to file it to fit the keyway. The other way only if have money to do this to find a machine shop the will make key blank for it. Otherwise need to keep checking into e-Bay to find these key. If come up with anything new will let you know. This is only of what I found so far. Good Luck..Timothy...

All,

Appreciate the input thus far! I would love to find someone that can make keys for these locks as I think they add to farebox! I also like to keep everything original as possible! I have looked on ebaY for anyone selling these types of locks to no avail! Am I correct in stating that these are referred to as Chicago 4 way locks?

If anyone knows of someone that could make keys for these please let me know. If anyone knows someone selling this type of lock with keys, again, please let me know!

Thanks again!!!

I don't think is Chicage Lock at they never make 4-way keyway. It should be Cleveland 4 way keyway. As making key for it I don't know very much of any machine shop make key in your area that will do it. You may have to check around to find one that will do it or outside of your state. I use to know one guy here that will do it but he retire a long time ago. Just keep looking as it may take time or who know maybe someone here on this forum may know someone does. Good luck...Timoty....

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Originally Posted by Timothy

I don't think is Chicage Lock at they never make 4-way keyway. It should be Cleveland 4 way keyway. As making key for it I don't know very much of any machine shop make key in your area that will do it. You may have to check around to find one that will do it or outside of your state. I use to know one guy here that will do it but he retire a long time ago. Just keep looking as it may take time or who know maybe someone here on this forum may know someone does. Good luck...Timoty....

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The National Locksmith Guide to Antique Padlocks (c) 1990 by Jack Roberts, CML has detailed information on the Cleveland 4-Way on pg. 16-17. Mr. Roberts states, we have found no practical manner of producing an operating key for these locks without disassembly which requires drilling and/or otherwise defacing the lock.

Pete Schifferli

As what Pete said about Mr. Robert the only thing I can think of as he may be taking about the Cleveland 4-Way Padlock that can't be disassembly which requires drilling and/or otherwise defacing the lock.
I could be wrong as I never have see it of what the lock or key look like as only see them in picture. I do believe is may be hard to impression this lock as could see per attached of the way the key look.

Some good to read: http://www.johnsonfarebox.com/index.html...

Zsem
There are something to check into with this web site as just maybe you can send them e-mail about key as maybe they will give you some idea of what can or not to do...Timothy...

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Originally Posted by Timothy

Some good to read: http://www.johnsonfarebox.com/index.html...

Zsem
There are something to check into with this web site as just maybe you can send them e-mail about key as maybe they will give you some idea of what can or not to do...Timothy...

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I had contacted them already and received the following response:

"The Chicago 4 way locks and keys are now controlled by GenFare, General Fare Industries. They took over everything from Keene who took over Johnson Farebox. I have tried to get locks and keys out of them but they only sell to the trade. All of the 4 way locks have a number on them and that determined the key cut code."'

I don't know anyone in the trade and GenFare has not responded to any of my emails!

I have found patent number That was made for Cleveland Farebox. Give you some idea of what the lock look like. As the way i look at it seem like is small four way key "?"....Timothy....

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Originally Posted by Timothy

I have found patent number That was made for Cleveland Farebox. Give you some idea of what the lock look like. As the way i look at it seem like is small four way key "?"....Timothy....

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Thanks Tim! I have sent this to my guy to see if it will help him!

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Originally Posted by Zsem

Thanks Tim! I have sent this to my guy to see if it will help him!

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Here are three more.
BBE.

1,683,985
1,832,498
1,896,523

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Originally Posted by BBE

Here are three more.
BBE.

1,683,985
1,832,498
1,896,523

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Appreciate the input guys! I must admit I started this thread looking for someone to simply see if a key could be made for these locks. I find myself more and more intrigued with the makings of this lock!!!

I guess is not going to hurt given more information on 4-way key. I have found four more patent number as one patent number 1917136 for Jail Lock. First time ever heard them using it for Jail Lock as would be nice to find one.....

Unfortunately I have given up hope on this topic as I can't find anyone that can make a duplicate key for the lock I have on my Cleveland/Johnson Farebox! Someone had a lock and key on ebay about 6 or so months ago but I was outbid!

Sorry to heard you lost the bit...Dang....Well just don't give up not finding any to duplicate key for the lock. I'm sure one of these day there going to be someone. I just wish I has one like your just to look at it to get some idea of what it all about.....Keep trying....Timothy....

Zsem
Have not heard word about your lock. On weekend looking into eBay found this. But it expire on May 6. Maybe can re-check it out.....Timohy.....< https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cleveland-O...-/153005327874 >

It was already sold for $38.55. Here are picture of the lock....Timothy.....

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Originally Posted by Timothy

It was already sold for $38.55. Here are picture of the lock....Timothy.....

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I wonder what city it was from? The two styles I have came from San Francisco trollies. I used to have a complete farebox but gave it to my son to use as a bank.
BBE.

my good friend Bob Dix, president of the ALCA, is a wealth of information on the Cleveland 4 way locks.

BBE
Look like seller from Westminster ColoradoUS.
Jeff
Does Bob Dix have email.....???......
.......Timothy.......

dixlock@aol.com

Thank Nathan.....Timothy....

Hi Timothy - I have several keys and lots of the "levers" for these locks so if you don't have success with Bob Dix maybe I can help set up a working key for this lock. I haven't had much success in picking these but if I can disassemble it there is a good chance. Let me know if you think I can help.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6ru1vm0hbr...yLock.MP4?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/nbzvem04i6...yLock.MP4?dl=0

Grey
Thank for information. The only reason asking for Bob Dix because I know other having same problem with this lock. Zsem was the one trying to get a key make for his lock. I have not heard word from him. I'm sure we all like to get lot of information on this 4-Way Cleveland lock. Wish I could has one and would be fun to learn about this lock. But the harder part there no key blank for it. Who know maybe somewhere along someone can make a key for it.....Timothy.....

Oops - my bad for getting mixed up on who needed this.

Yeah, there are not too many blanks left in the world. I have one and know of a couple others floating around. There are a lot of used keys out there and what I have done for non-padlock locks is just re-work the lock to match the key that I have. I came across a handful of the little wedges/tumblers so have had something to work with. Still haven't gotten a padlock apart....

On a related note, I have also been able to have replica keys cast for my fare-box vaults. I have several vaults but only one key but now each fare-box can have it's own set of keys. Much better if selling them ever becomes a necessity. I would be willing to loan my blank (see avatar) to anyone who would like to cast up some for us.

I'm having trouble open https://www.dropbox.com/s/6ru1vm0hbr...yLock.MP4?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/nbzvem04i6...yLock.MP4?dl=0 don't know why but crazy computer.

It would be need if you can show some picture of your all information you said. I'm sure we all would like to see some of your work.

One of these day just wish I could get these Cleveland key for the padlock and Farebox. So can give me some idea of what I'm look at. Who know maybe see if I can make one or find someone that work in machine shop. It doesn't look easy to do it......Timothy......

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Originally Posted by GregWhitney

Oops - my bad for getting mixed up on who needed this.

Yeah, there are not too many blanks left in the world. I have one and know of a couple others floating around. There are a lot of used keys out there and what I have done for non-padlock locks is just re-work the lock to match the key that I have. I came across a handful of the little wedges/tumblers so have had something to work with. Still haven't gotten a padlock apart....

On a related note, I have also been able to have replica keys cast for my fare-box vaults. I have several vaults but only one key but now each fare-box can have it's own set of keys. Much better if selling them ever becomes a necessity. I would be willing to loan my blank (see avatar) to anyone who would like to cast up some for us.

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Just as a point of interest there are two different types of banks. One is a cross + shape where one leg of the cross is thicker than the other three. The other is more of an X shape with one leg thicker.
BBE.