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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Eastern United States
    Posts
    63
    Country: United States

    Default Pillard # 17

    So you got me thinking...I dug out my pillard #17 lock that should be similar to his 19.
    The lock has three wheels and a driver.

    The correct dialing sequence is:
    Right 4x to first number
    Left 3x to the second number
    Right 2x to the third number
    Left to 100~ dial comes to a stop.

    This lock is very susceptible to bolt pressure. Make sure that the boltwork handle is in the fully locked position.
    I have more Pillards in my collection. .....I'll post more soon.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20170420_213643.jpg   20170420_213718.jpg   20170420_213929.jpg   20170420_213814.jpg   20170420_213903.jpg  

    20170420_214141.jpg  

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Eastern United States
    Posts
    63
    Country: United States

    Default Pillard # 10

    The Pillard number 10, is a rare latch lock.

    It has three wheels and a driver. Note the unusual fence drop in point.

    This dialing sequence is like today's modern locks:
    Left 4x to first number
    Right 3x to the second number
    Left 2x to the third number
    Right until the dial stops.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20170420_220933.jpg   20170420_220958.jpg   20170420_221049.jpg   20170420_221106.jpg   20170420_221322.jpg  


  3. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    11
    Country: Canada

    Default Pillards No 19 Combo sequence

    Thanks so much everyone!


    I should have explained more fully from the start, but didn't want to tediously list Every variant way of dialing I've tried, including what everyone has suggested.

    Before my initial posts, I'd ALSO gone thru each L-R-L_R and R-L-R_L variant with my numbers (Starting at both 0 on the dial/index line AND Starting from the 1st #, etc)...and then
    1) proceeding (exactly as advised) from each # onward, ignoring the last #, ignoring 0 ,
    2) proceeding using the last # passed to count the revolutions and stopping on the next#,
    3) adding / reducing each number of revolutions for each # IN the sequence (starting 5x4x4x, 5x4x3x, 5x4x2, 5x3x3, 5x3x2, etc....4x4x4, 4x4x3, 4x4x2, 4x3x3, 4x3x2, etc..thru 3x3x3, 3x3x2...and so forth), using both of the above methods (and anything else I could think of / try) for both L-R-L_R and R-L-R_L sequences,
    and basically every other thing i came across.

    I'd gone at this logically, methodically, and with common sense to that point. That's why, when I began posting, I set ego 100% aside - to ask for ANY firsthand knowledge of, or ideally access to (enabling a hard test to 100% eliminate any and all other sequence variants once and for all) of a Pillards N0 19 combination lock.
    I appreciate ANY help, and I'm trying it ALL as I receive it - even if I've tried those same methods a hundred times - in the hopes that I can eliminate at least some of the variables in this process.

    I have tried about every method I could scour up on the net, and cannot get the safe to open again.. and yet: it Did- ONCE, with the numbers I have. Otherwise I would simply think the NUMBERS were incorrect at this point. Thus, you can see my frustration. LoL

    SO: I thank you for your continued patience with me folks.
    I truly DO appreciate Any and All assistance, advice, options, suggestions, or guesses - and I DO try any tip I receive - regardless of whether or not I've tried that exact method previously.

    My father left me these safes when he passed away just 2 months ago and so perhaps they are, in a way, one of the last Tasks I can do with / for him. It's kind of important to me.

    So I sincerely do thank Everyone for their continued help, once again. Keep em comin.


  4. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    11
    Country: Canada

    Default RE: Pillards No 19 Dialing Sequence / No 10

    Thanks Yankee

    I'll definitely give this a go. My No 19 looks much more similar to your No 10 than to the No 17, and your sequence matches the L-R-L-R sequence my father had written down. You'd mentioned in your earlier post that the locks are sensitive to Bolt pressure. Should I therefore hold pressure ON the bolt handle? And would you recommend pressure Toward the locked bolt position, or Away from locked, while dialing?

    For reference: My safe has the hinges on the left side of the door, the dial in middle-Left, and bolt handle to the Left side of the door. Door locks on the Left.

    Lastly, you'd also mentioned an unusual Drop point with these locks. I've only actually heard the drop Once lol - and it SEEMED loudly audible and obvious at the time - but HOW much "stop" should I expect to notice on the final dial turn? A "tick", a "click", a slight resistance, or a full "catch and stop" that prevents further dial rotation in that direction?

    Again, forgive the simplicity of these questions. It's just that I've tried SO many ways, logically, and I know what I should expect for most Other locks: but since none of that works HERE, I think there Must be something unique and simple to THESE / This lock - something non-industry-standard that I'm missing.

    Thanks so much for your help.


    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee View Post
    The Pillards number 10, is a rare latch lock.

    It has three wheels and a driver. Note the unusual fence drop in point.

    This dialing sequence is like today's modern locks:
    Left 4x to first number
    Right 3x to the second number
    Left 2x to the third number
    Right until the dial stops.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Eastern United States
    Posts
    63
    Country: United States

    Smile Questions

    As to the locks having issues with bolt pressure.

    One of the first things, we safecrackers do, when we begin the diagnosis of a locked safe, is to check the movement of the safe handle and play in the door.
    The handle should have positive movement, play so to speak, left and right. You should feel and hear, the handle acting on the attached boltwork.

    When you are at the final turn of the combination, apply pressure on the handle, in the locking direction. As you approach "0" on the dial, go slow and do two things simultaneously. .......shake the handle left and right. As you shake the handle, oscillate the dial about 20 numbers...you are trying to free up any pressure that might be holding the lock fence in the up position. Do this for just a few seconds, then continue turning the dial in the same direction as you were going.

    Every Pillard lock I have come across, has a positive stop when it is unlocked. That means, when it unlocks, the dial comes to a complete stop, and can not be turned any further.

    I think you are going to find that there is something very simple as to why your safe isn't opening.......don't over think this.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hartford CT
    Posts
    153
    Country: United States

    Default Pillards 10

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee View Post
    The Pillard number 10, is a rare latch lock.

    It has three wheels and a driver. Note the unusual fence drop in point.

    This dialing sequence is like today's modern locks:
    Left 4x to first number
    Right 3x to the second number
    Left 2x to the third number
    Right until the dial stops.
    Chip, I've never seen the inside of a 10. Thanks for posting that one.

    DH

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hartford CT
    Posts
    153
    Country: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by odinfix View Post

    For reference: My safe has the hinges on the left side of the door, the dial in middle-Left, and bolt handle to the Left side of the door. Door locks on the Left.

    Thanks so much for your help.
    I'm confused as to the hand of your door. This would make a big difference in the dialing sequence of your safe if you have a left hand lock. Posting a picture of the full front would help.

    DH

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    11
    Country: Canada

    Default Safe Door Details Correction

    Quote Originally Posted by David Hovey View Post
    I'm confused as to the hand of your door. This would make a big difference in the dialing sequence of your safe if you have a left hand lock. Posting a picture of the full front would help.

    DH

    Apologies, all details were as listed, Except: the hinges are on the Right side of the door.
    Dial is Left of middle, Bolt handle is to Left of Dial. The throw bolt engages from the Left side of the door into the Left side of the safe. Door swings open on the hinges, L to R.

    (Sorry, I'm not sure Why but the when I upload the photos it rotates them sideways.)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails WP_20170418_20_34_55_Pro.jpg   WP_20170418_20_38_41_Pro.jpg  

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    11
    Country: Canada

    Default Pics of safe

    Quote Originally Posted by David Hovey View Post
    I'm confused as to the hand of your door. This would make a big difference in the dialing sequence of your safe if you have a left hand lock. Posting a picture of the full front would help.

    DH
    Here are some pics of the door:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails WP_20170424_14_36_17_Pro.jpg   WP_20170424_14_36_40_Pro.jpg  

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hartford CT
    Posts
    153
    Country: United States

    Default Door & Lock Handing.

    Thank you for posting the pictures. So it's a RH door with a RH lock and it would dial as stated.

    The only other thing I can think of is sometimes the user opens the lock backwards. If thats the case your last number is dialing left, you would have to dial right to drop-in then back left to stop.

    Sorry I have no further information. Good luck on your opening, I'm sure you'll get it.

    DH

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