Welcome to our world of Locks and Locksmiths (click logo or scroll down to view all):-
 www.Antique-Locks.com 
  
HoL
   COLTi
Or are you looking for modern, or recent past,
Keys, Locks or Safes.
keys, locks & safes
Industrial Archaeology of Locks HoL Museum
COLTi
  
Please support our forum sponsors where you can.
Researching locks from antiquity to the recent past.Maintaining a reference collection & archive.Today's scene and cutting edge developments.
Results 1 to 9 of 9
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    2
    Country: United States

    Default 1890s Mortise Cylinder - Help, I need information and a key blank!

    My next door neighbor has a home built in 1895 (so far as can be told) and i thought nothing of pulling the original lock cylinder to have a new key made. Unfortunately for me, the key is an obsolete key, being of a U shape. The patent on the cylinder I believe says, "Pat. OCT.27-95" Although the "95, could be an 8/9 and a 5/6) One locksmith suggested that the cylinder may be a Schroeder, another says that he may be an Eagle. I guess it has a double pin mechanism that each leg of the key activates. I am curious to the manufacturer, the actual patent date, and I'd like to find a key blank for it. Any help would be much appreciated.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	photo.jpg 
Views:	36 
Size:	590.2 KB 
ID:	11422
    Wesley

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    15
    Country: United States

    Default John Luebbers

    Here's the patent:

    US 570032 A



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Tonawanda, NY, USA
    Posts
    686
    Country: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Krakowsky View Post
    Here's the patent:

    US 570032 A


    Review of Patent No. 570,032 reveals it was issued Oct. 27, 1896. Inventor was John Luebbers of Cincinnati, Ohio and it was assigned to J.B. Schroeder & Co. also of Cincinnati, OH. They were an old time lock manufacturer from that era but I have little information on them. I did find some reference to old Schroder sectional key blanks from Ilco and Graham but nothing like the cylinder image or patent. See thumbnail attached.

    Pete Schifferli
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails SchroderKeyways.jpg  

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Seattle WA
    Posts
    1,325
    Country: United States

    Default

    Well that is kinda like a BiLock. Different than it once you get into the lock and how it works.Blanks will have to be made by hand as I don't think that was ever in the after market. If that lock is up for sale let me know. I would love to have more pictures at least.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    1,199
    Country: United States

    Default

    A more recent analog is the Bi Lock from Australia, US patent numbers 4,478,061 and 4,498,327. See http://toool.nl/images/f/f9/Cutaway1.pdf page 15. It's unlikely the blanks would be close but I thought it would be interesting to point out the similarity. See also http://www.bilock.com/ and http://www.bilock.net/. At least the concept is still alive.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    2
    Country: United States

    Default What goes around, comes around.

    Thanks for the information, and for the patent! It's really quite an interesting setup, for a lock that doesn't even activate a deadbolt for security. Where does one begin to make blanks? Or are there those out there who do? Is the bottom of the "u" crucial to the key function?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    442
    Country: United States

    Default 1890s Mortise Cylinder - Help, I need information and a key blank!

    Not sure about it as looking up patent number 31278, from L.Yale JR. The reason for is as you look at the key blank it just about close to it.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Seattle WA
    Posts
    1,325
    Country: United States

    Default

    I would take two flat blanks and braze them together with a bridge at the bottom. Then merge the key at the "head" of the key and use one of the key heads from the ones I used for the blades. Once done if done correctly would look good. It will take someone that knows metal work.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,232
    Country: Wales

    Default

    That's a very interesting lock and an interesting key profile as well- especially considering the age of it- it's definitely got a Victorian Bi lock look about it.

    On the subject of making blanks- Dean's right in that it's definitely going to involve knowledge of the lock and working with metal.

    My first choice would definitely be to profile the section from solid brass rectangular bar- once it's filed or milled to size (might even be lucky and find some already the right size). Milling down the centre will then create the 'U' shape you need. The photo seems a bit unclear to me though- it looks like the bottom of the 'U' might have a shaped profile on it? If so it's presumably to stop a basic 'U' shape blank from fitting. This profile can again be milled or carefully filed by hand depending on how adventurous/skilled you are. An advantage of this method is that the other end of the bar can then be milled down, the end turned to form a round spigot, and any key bow you have or want to make, can then be nicely brazed on the end. Or, the bow end can be left slightly wider or 'flared' where it projects from the plug, and before you turn the spigot. This will act as a collar or 'stop' for the key sliding in the plug.

    Obviously all the profile and shaping has to be done step-at-a time and very accurately to fit the profile and the plug though, as any wobble or slop will render the blank useless as a working key- And, on an old lock cylinder of that age it's anyone's guess as to how worn the internal profile could be. You simply won't know until to do it!

    Dean's method is another good one using a 'built-up' process to create the shape, and yet another I'd consider would be to fold the 'U' section up from brass or nickel silver strip of the correct thickness. Easy enough to do quite tight cold bends in brass, but it's easily annealed to soften it to make things easier and get the corners even tighter. With both these methods you will have a bit of faffing around to fit the bow on though, as Dean said.

    Also don't forget that after all that's done it's still a big unknown as to the condition of the lock inside- unless you've already had it apart of course. That would make things a lot easier for making the blanks and sizing them to the plug.

    It's the sort of interesting and relaxing job that most of us would probably keep on the bench for ages and just pick it up every now and then and do a bit more. these sort of 'unknown' jobs are fine when you can do it all yourself but could be problematic and expensive if someone else has to be paid to do it- there's also the potential for a lot of fiddly little worn out parts and springs inside, in addition to hand making the blanks and making the keys, so fingers crossed that none of it is worn and that all the parts inside are ok. Give it a go and let us know how you get on

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •