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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    12
    Country: United States

    Default Very antique key and lock related

    I was wondering why there isn't an antique key cutter (key machine) section, or is it alright to post those pictures and questions in the Antique Key area? I have a Keil New York No. 3 - 3 1\2 key machine that is a work of machinist's art and it is from the early 20th century.

    There aren't many pictures of the real thing on the Internet as far as I can tell. There is one place where you can find a picture that came from the manual, more than likely, to be able to identify the machine you have, but sometimes those aren't definitive as I have seen one machine that stumped me.

    I know that you probably have to be a locksmith in some locales to even own these old machines, but they are worth collecting and sometimes they can be had dirt cheap compared to the locks that these machines made (make) keys for. Let's keep the old ways alive, and show those pictures.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Bournemouth, UK
    Posts
    417
    Country: UK

    Default

    Good idea but like all good ideas they have to start somewhere. You were absolutely right to post in the miscellaneous section to start with – if the topic takes of then yes a sub section could be devoted to it. There are many antique key cutters out there (me included) and it could be a fascinating exploration.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Bournemouth, UK
    Posts
    417
    Country: UK

    Default Early Key Machines & Key Making

    Many of the old ways and methods are slowly disappearing from living memory making it very difficult to understand how things used to be done. I remember as a boy the key machine in our shop was a very crude affair. Lateral and transverse actions being transmitted by cables which seemed always in need of replacement!


    Click image for larger version. 

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  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    12
    Country: United States

    Default

    I actually own a Keil New York Model no. 3 1/2 (With cabinet), but when I went to add a picture with this post I found that I hadn't taken any myself. I will be getting some pictures in the near future though.

    I have seen some old machines come up on Craig's List here in the States and I have seen some just plain curious machines that I couldn't identify. Maybe too many parts were missing, or it had been "modified" for some reason which leads to the confusion.

    The hard part is coming up with a real picture to verify your suspicions if you are really close to an ID, but just can't see it from an illustration some ad people did in the 1920s.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Tonawanda, NY, USA
    Posts
    666
    Country: United States

    Default

    I'd be interested in seeing an image of your Keil 3-1/2. There is a paid membership website, Simon-Says.com; that has some information on Keil Nos. 0, 1, 1-1/2, 4, 4-1/2, 6, 6-1/2, 7, 7-1/2, 9, 9-1/2, 10, 10-1/2, 13, 15 & 15-1/2 but alas no 3 or 3-1/2. Note that the 1/2 suffix in Keil nomenclature denotes a key machine mounted on a board with motor whereas the lack of the 1/2 indicates the basic key machine only sans motor.

    Pete Schifferli
    Tonawanda, NY

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Tonawanda, NY, USA
    Posts
    666
    Country: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Morland View Post
    Many of the old ways and methods are slowly disappearing from living memory making it very difficult to understand how things used to be done. I remember as a boy the key machine in our shop was a very crude affair. Lateral and transverse actions being transmitted by cables which seemed always in need of replacement!
    That Mancuna machine is much like the bit and flat key end of the old Ilco Improved Minute. An updated version is still made in Japan by Watayoshi, the Steel King SK1. Sold in the US by mbaUSA @ $1,725.00, see image attached.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Pete Schifferli
    Tonawanda, NY

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Bournemouth, UK
    Posts
    417
    Country: UK

    Default

    Not exactly very old, vintage rather than antique, but thought it might be of interest. It must have been very boring cutting keys with this!!!

    Click image for larger version. 

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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Devon UK
    Posts
    2,924
    Country: UK

    Default

    Tell us more about that little beauty Brian?!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Bournemouth, UK
    Posts
    417
    Country: UK

    Default Tschudin & Heid / Kromer Key cutting Machine

    It’s a Kromer key cutting machine, made by T&H (Tschudin & Heid AG), supplied to Tann by Kromer when they got heavily into their locks.

    You couldn’t put that in the back of the van!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Cyberspace
    Posts
    1,265
    Country: Australia

    Default

    Wounder what became of it, I assume given it's complexity that it would cut the protector lock keys ?

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