Procedure needed to re-set a Sargent Greenleaf Combination lock

[Mallard77]

I'm new to the forum having just purchased an old Pittsburg Safe Co. safe with a Sargent Greenleaf combination lock and am looking for any information on the safe or lock. I have cleaned the lock and reassembled it correctly, made a setting key, and would now like to get a procedure or comments about changing the combination. There was some information I found on line which sounds similar, except my safe has no alternate changing index mark. I understand how the square drive locks the inner part of the disk but I am a bit puzzled as to how to proceed. The combination requires 4 numbers, the last not changeable. There is a number on the small bronze disk, which looks like 243.

[wylk]

The exact procedure depends on the model, so some pictures of the lock (dial, back, insides with back removed) would help. If there is no change index it might be a somewhat uncommon "zero change" model. In simple terms, you dial the old combination in such a way that the square keyway in all the wheels line up with the change key hole in the back of the lock (don't try this without the back in place); insert the key and turn left (counterclockwise) 90 degrees; dial the new combination; turn the key back to its original position and remove. Test it several times before committing to locking the safe door!

[Parautoptic]

The S+G website has several instruction sheets, I`m fairly sure that the "zero setting" one is there.

[Mallard77]

It must be a zero change model as there is no change index. How uncommon is this type? This safe is at least 80 years old according to the seller. It does have a serial number on the T handle.

The S&G web site shows a few procedures but the ones I checked have the change index.

I'll give it a try in a few hours.

[wylk]

Elsewhere on antique-locks.com is a 1929 S&G catalog that might help identify the model number (look under Advertising Materials and Catalogs) though IIRC there are no directions. Of course an 80-year-old safe could have a much newer lock installed. If you made your own change key, be gentle with it, the real keys have features to prevent over-turning, turning unless fully seated, as well as preventing removal unless the wheels are properly latched up. If your key won't do this, be as sure as you can that you don't turn more than 90 degrees, and that you turn it back to the original position. Also, depending on how you made it, be sure the end has a tip to enter a hole in the front of the case which will then ensure the key remains perpendicular to the case while it's being turned; if the wheels "skew" during the process you won't set the combination you intend; or, be aware of the issue, at least.

As suggested earlier, pictures would at the very least be interesting to many of us, including your home-made change key.

[Mallard77]

The catalogs didn't show my lock. It is very simple in that the gates line up on the bottom which allows an arm, which is pushed up by a cam, to enter the gate. The key was made with a piece of .125" square keystock, the end was turned, and the other end was bent 90 degrees. Just a few minute project as I have a machine shop. By looking at the inside of the cover, it was apparent that it required alignment and a motion limited to 90 degrees. Clever mechanism, although now that I have been looking at safe mechanisms, I realize that this is just a basic lock. Some of the real complicated locks look very interesting.

[Mallard77]

Well, that was easy. Just unlock, dial the new numbers, and re-lock. Clever design. I have a few other questions.

What is the rating of a safe and lock such as I have? Is it just a basic, keep out the non-professional? Should I be concerned about (easy) access? I question this because of the much more complicated locks I have seen while looking around for information on my safe.

Another question is, is there any specific do's and don'ts regarding selecting numbers for this combination lock? I'm not talking about using birthdays or addresses, but sequences such as ascending, descending, etc.

[wylk]

I tried doing some research on the Pittsburg Safe Company but didn't come up with a lot.

There were two separate companies. The early one went out of business in 1875, with litigation lasting at least 9 more years between the former partners. I'd guess your safe is not from them. The second one was incorporated in December of 1902 and stayed in business until perhaps 1913 or so, it just isn't clear. Your safe may be from this era, say 1902-1910 as a rough guess.

I had not realized that the spelling of Pittsburgh with the "h" was not settled until 1911, and had to try both spellings when doing Google searches.

There is an advertisement from 1907 on Google Books which states they use S&G locks: Pacific medical journal - Google Books on page 42.

[wylk]

[QUOTE=laminar-flow;3695]What is the rating of a safe and lock such as I have? Is it just a basic, keep out the non-professional? Should I be concerned about (easy) access? I question this because of the much more complicated locks I have seen while looking around for information on my safe.[QUOTE]
Just as a guess, it is probably a moderately good fire safe but I don't remember when Underwriters Lab began rating safes; check for any labels that might clarify. As for physical security it probably is moderately poor (especially looking at the photos) but is likely to be intimidating in appearance. A skilled and/or determined crook could probably get in quickly but there don't seem to be many of them these days :-)

[Halflock]

From a security standpoint: The lock is not very good in that there are several things missing that a modern lock has. For example if the spindle was punched there isn't a relocker built into the lock body. But there are many more things in a good modern lock. I will not cover the weak points as this is not a secure forum. So if I was going to rate it I would bunch it with a slot or two just above a sentry firebox (Safe). The older safes are good for common armor but that is about it. I have an old safe that I have upgraded the lock.