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  1. #1
    ANS
    ANS is offline Member

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    Default Men's old dresser lock/key

    I have inherited an older oak bureau. The bottom drawers use a barrel lock (I can see a pin) and are unlocked, and I have a skeleton key that fits and triggers the mechanism. The top drawer is locked and the lock itself does not look like the others, no pin just a small hole with a tiny raised edge. I would like to be able to use all the drawers. I was told by a local locksmith to slightly pry up the top of the bureau and slide something flat to push the locking mechanism down but the oak is solid and it will not budge and I cannot access it from the back without damaging the piece. Any ideas as to what kind of key might work - it is a tiny hole. Was this a popular practice to have the top lock different? I bought several sets of keys on ebay but to find that straight type is not easy. The key for the other drawers fits but as it swings around there's just a click-click sound like it is tripping but not accessing the part that keeps the draw locked. Please help...

  2. #2
    Alan Morgan is offline Member This is Alan Morgan's Country Flag

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    Default Re: Men's old dresser lock/key

    I suspect you will need a locksmith to open it.
    If you post approximate location somebody should be able to recommend one with the necessary skill to do this without drilling or damage.
    More often, one type of lock is used throughout.
    Alan Morgan Master Locksmiths.co.uk
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  3. #3
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    oldlock is offline Retired Member This is oldlock's Country Flag

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    Default Re: Men's old dresser lock/key

    It sounds very much like the drawer may be fitted with a bramah lock. That was not uncommon with good quality items of furniture to have one drawer or area that offered better security than the rest of the item.

    If you have a look into the keyhole (you may need a small torch) see if you can see what look like the spokes of a wheel radiating from a small central pin. if that's the case then my suspicion would be confirmed. Then as alan advises if you suggest your location someone maybe able to advise further.

  4. #4
    ANS
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    Default Re: Men's old dresser lock/key

    Thank you for your help. There are a few locksmiths in my area - will check to see if they make house calls. Anne

  5. #5
    chubbbramah is offline Member This is chubbbramah's Country Flag

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    Default Re: Men's old dresser lock/key

    The poster talks of 'a skeleton key': does that actually mean a skeleton key [for a warded lock] or does it mean a bit key? By 'barrel', does the poster mean a pipe key?
    Bramah locks are distinctive and easily recognised from the keyhole.
    If a key is available which turns in the other locks, another possibility exists.
    Robert Barron also invented, but did not patent, a 'fly-talon' lock, soon after the double-acting tumbler invention, so probably in the late 18C. He made these in London, with wards, so a skeleton key might operate. After the bolt is thrown, an additional turn of the key moves the fly talon. Then even the real key, or anything else which will turn in the lock, in the unlocking direction, will turn ineffectually. The spring pressure on the locking tumbler or levers will be felt, but the key will not move the bolt. In principle, this 'fly talon' lock was re-invented by Gould in 1817. Gould locks were made with both a single tumbler, and also with 2 or 3 levers.
    Gould's version is described in PRICE Treatise on fire and thiefproof depositories pp372-373. The fly-talon is a copy of Barron's.

    To unlock, the key is turned twice in the locking direction, then once in the unlocking direction.
    The counter-intuitive operation probably rendered such locks unpopular. However, Barron certainly supplied some of his for late 18C London-made furniture. Barron locks, incidentally, often have hook wards, and sometimes interlaced hook wards so that they cannot be skeletoned.

    If a bit key is available which turns in the other drwers, try turning it first in the locking direction. On ordinary tumbler/lever locks, it will not turn! If it does, either the bolt step is too short for the lock, or this is a fly talon lock. The fly talon has a spring on it so it operates on the 'over-centre principle', (and this spring can break). Note that on a Barron tumbler lock, the bolt step is the step farthest from the backplate, unlike other lever cabinet locks in which the bolt step is the one nearest the backplate.

    One point bothers me though. Late 18C - early 19C furniture of good quality was unlikely still to be made of oak. The wood of choice was then mahogony. Late Victorian/Edwardian repro oak furniture would be unlikely to have a fly talon lock. Also, bureau carcases are rarely so strong and stiff they cannot be spread apart by sash cramps (possibly with the aid of wedges initially) ... . The throw of the bolt is quite short. And if the item is oak, no variety of Barron lock is likely to have been used. (That said though, anything is *possible*.)
    All things considered though — a Bramah lock on the top drawer seems most likely.

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    Alan Morgan is offline Member This is Alan Morgan's Country Flag

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    Default Re: Men's old dresser lock/key

    The use of 'Barrel Key' made me think the poster was in America, as this seems a more common description there than 'Pipe Key'
    Would that change the oak mahogany issue?
    Alan Morgan Master Locksmiths.co.uk
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    chubbbramah is offline Member This is chubbbramah's Country Flag

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    Default Re: Men's old dresser lock/key

    It does indeed sound as though the poster is in USA. However, we have no clue from him as to where the furniture piece was made. Huge amounts of furniture (and much else) were experted to America, and antique furniture continues to be experted from the UK. The hint we believe points to a Bramah lock suggests to me the piece was most likely made in Britain. I have no knowledge of US furniture-making practice around the turn of the 18C
    Oak is quite a distinctive open-grained wood, obviously different from walnut and mahogony, though these two might be confused. Hickory might be confused with oak, and would have been used for much US-made furniture. But then, a Bramah or even Barron lock would have been unlikely.

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    chubbbramah is offline Member This is chubbbramah's Country Flag

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    Default Re: Men's old dresser lock/key

    Re-reading the original post, two further thoughts occur to me.
    If the lower drawers are unlocked, the locks could be removed and examined. Fly talon locks seem unlikely on other than London-made furniture from around the turn of the 18C. Barron and his son made these by hand, production cannot have been great, and distribution likely was limited.

    Is the top drawer locked by a LOCK (as we understand it here)? Is the hole the hole of a mechanical lock? Top drawers of fall-front bureaus were sometimes secured by some hidden contrivance operated from inside the fall-front space. This obviated the need for another metal lock and (possibly different) key. In this case, the 'keyhole' in the front of the drawer is a dummy. Typically, the device used is simply a pin pushed down into the back edge of the top drawer. This pin is supported by a spring which lifts it clear of the drawer if free to do so. The pin is pushed down by closing fully a small drawer in the top compartment of the bureau, usually included amongst the pidgeon-hole compartments. It is only necessary to pull this small drawer forward slightly to release the pin, to 'unlock' the top drawer of the bureau. (A somewhat similar idea was later commonly used on wooden office desks to allow one drawer — the kneehole drawer — to control all the drawers in both pedestals, using only one lock and key. The idea is also repeated in some metal filing cabinets.)
    If not a small drawer, perhaps some other part in the fall-front compartment moves — make a careful search.

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